-----Original Message----- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of smi...@zonnet.nl
It is the belief that the scentists can be trusted to do the research they are supposed to do in a scientifically responsible way, vs. the belief in the conspiracy theory that the entire scientific field has been hijacked by ultra left wing environmental pressure groups. Saibal A conspiracy theory that has become spread through massive funding by the big holders of fossil carbon reserves -- seeking to protect the future valuation of those reserves, which has a large impact on the current valuation of their carbon holdings. An eminently rational (if cynical) motive, for these narrow carbon interests, but one that has sowed confusion and doubt, using the same "junk science" (and "left wing hijacked science") accusations that were perfected by Big Tobacco in the preceding decades. It worked then for Big Tobacco and this same strategy of sowing falsehoods, is working now for the big carbon interests. Chris Citeren "Alberto G. Corona" <agocor...@gmail.com>: > Threads like this have no relation with questions about what this list > is > about: the ultimate reality. > > Well...wait... Why questions like this are discussed here? My guess is > that yes, indeed. This is a question about the ultimate reality. GW is > a question of belief, about where we go, one of the most fundamental > questions after "where we come from" and "what we are". > > And the people´s mind unconsciously and naturally direct these > questions to this list. > > That is a bit irritating for me but at last it brings invaluable > information about what is my main interest: people and what they believe. > > In my thesis about the religious instinct GW match perfectly with what > is a primitive religion. I mean primitive in the sense that it demand > sacrifices almost as expensive as the supposed benefits it brings. In > this sense, the structure of GW is close of the one of the Aztec > religion: For the Aztecs the world would end if there were no human > sacrifices. The benefits were a solid war machine in defense of the empire and security for the citizens. > > This war machine and solid commitment of the people comes from the > very high price that people pay in their sacrifices. This is an > investment in the continuity of the society and culture. The investment works as follows: > if each citizen does not defend from disorder and the disorder break > the structure, his investment will dissipate into nothingness. > > If two men fall in a island, to collaborate, one consciously but also > unconsciously demand sacrifices from the other in order to build trust. > That is the religious instinct. They end up having common goals about > what to do to be saved. If both agree to look for resources in the > island, one demand to the other some result, or the signs of effort in > the task if it has not been sucessful. Many tasks in a culture do not > produce direct and visible products. Then signs of pain and sacrifices > are demanded in a group to create mutual trust. These sacrifice > becomes with time ritualized presented, codified and shared in a formal religion. > > GW is a religion in his infancy. It demand eco-sacrifices: slow down > industrialization of poor countries and so on. I would say that also > demand human sacrifices if we count the promotion of abortion and the > forced abortions in many third countries that the UN is promoting in > the name of the Mother Earth. The supposed benefits are a World > Government of enlightened people that will solve all our problems. > > From the said about Aztecs, it is absolutely mandatory for the GW > believers that everyone without exception believe in GW. For this > purpose GW must be undisputable and "deniers" must be prosecuted. The > world is warming? this is because GW. The world stay the same? This is because GW. It is coling? > that is predicted by GW. Every country must implement anti-babe > anti-familly policies to stop population growth: feminism, > homosexualism, abortion, destroying the history of the western > countries in order to create supranational structures governed by enlightened people etc. > > > What is said for the individuals apply now for the countries. Third > world Countries that adopt the UN Agenda are strongly subsidized > (Their elites, i mean). That happens with China, for example with his one child policy. > The deniers are attacked by the propaganda. etc > > This is not centralized conspiracy. It is religion. Once a idea is set > in the mind of some powerful people and they invest on it, the the > rest of the ideas and processes start to work and accommodate > themselves for the common goal. People do not conspire. People´s > interests do with no much intelligence neither effort. It is simply natural. > > > 2014-04-02 5:49 GMT+02:00 Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>: > >> >> >> >> >> *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: >> everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *LizR >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2014 4:21 PM >> >> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Climate models >> >> >> >> On 2 April 2014 12:10, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Why has LFTR development essentially stopped for forty years? >> >> >> >> Apparently they can't be used to make bombs. >> >> >> >> Sure there is that, and no doubt that was why - at the height of the >> cold war to put it in context - LFTR was dropped. That explains the >> then, but it does not explain the essentially complete absence of any LFTR R&D anywhere. >> I've read more than most on LFTR, and as far as breeders go it seems >> to me to be the way to go for a number of reasons, including that the >> fuel re-processing can be accomplished chemically rather than needing >> to spin it out by centrifuge as is needed for uranium (same element, >> different isotopes). LFTR power stations could have onsite fuel >> re-processing and thus contain these deadly materials in a relatively few well secured sites. >> >> However even with LFTR you do still have a waste problem - as has >> been pointed out. Much less of a problem than you do with single pass >> nuclear power in use today, but a serious long term cost and >> potential risk - that requires extremely long term mitigation, >> containment solutions. What is the current day cost of that amortized >> future cost? What do we need to set aside up front baked into the >> price that is charged, in order to adequately fund a containment project with a duration measured in millennia. >> >> But beyond all of this, there is the problem of logistics in the >> current and moving forward increasingly stark reality of fossil >> energy depletion, which is breathing down the worlds neck despite >> what folks like John would have us believe. The production collapse >> of Cantarell (one of the largest oil fields ever discovered) in just >> a few short years should be an eye opener to anyone with eyes. Ghawar >> the biggest field ever discovered has also peaked and is now being >> squeezed - just like Cantarell with steam injection and other >> tertiary recovery techniques. Now on to Shale Oil - it is a mirage. >> The oil majors have all discovered this harsh lesson - at great cost >> to their shareholders, and they are all heading for the exit trying >> to offload their unconventional oil holdings. Perhaps the major oil >> companies in the world know something that John Clark has not been >> made privy to (or that he willfully ignores), but a massive collapse >> in capital expenditure is now underway in the shale oil and shale gas >> sectors. Why, why are all the insiders stumbling over each other on >> their rush to get out of their shale plays. Could it be because after >> burning huge sums of capital -- some of the Majors like Shell dropped >> more than forty or fifty billion dollars (I forget which) - they are >> discovering that the reality of Shale is that it has very low rates >> of marginal return and is a capital expenditure sinkhole. They are >> also discovering that fracked wells (for both gas & the oil like >> kerogen) begin to reseal after just a few years, and need to be >> re-fracked (a significant cost in both energy, water and money). The >> insiders know this. Just follow the money, the sharp dry up of new >> capital speaks volumes. Fracked fields also have shorter periods of >> peak production and begin entering depletion sooner than traditional oil & gas fields. Furthermore when these formations do go into depletion their rates of depletion are higher than those of traditional oil & gas fields. >> This is a key factor, because the initial rush of hundreds of >> billions of dollars of capital into the fracked shale (both gas & >> oil) plays was justified using well production assumptions drawn from >> statistics gathered for traditional oil and gas fields. >> >> >> >> For example the typical decline curve for Bakken shale oil wells (it >> is the biggest shale play) is a decline of 69% in the 1rst year; 39% >> - 2nd; 26% - 3rd; 27% - 4rth; 33% - 5th. After just five years the >> fracked well produces 1/20th its rate when first fracked. Numbers >> like these are what is driving the capital flight from this sector. >> >> >> >> Now back to LFTR - keeping this context of collapsing marginal supply >> of energy clearly in mind. How does the entire LFTR logistical chain >> from mine; to refine; to power; to repository ever get built. It >> could have been built even ten years ago perhaps, but now the era of >> energy scarcity is about to hit. >> >> >> >> Accept for a moment the most widely stated (perhaps optimistic) >> figure I have heard of... that oil has entered an era of 5% depletion >> rates. Compound that decline for ten years and try to imagine the >> word working on the much smaller rate of energy production that >> remains. In a regime of shrinking energy supplies the GDP will also >> shrink. A shrinking GDP is also known as a depression. >> >> >> >> Only the government could ever assemble the needed capital and >> resources, but the government will be stretched thin as well and more >> concerned with the next energy war than LFTR. >> >> >> >> There is no LFTR, nothing, except a few back of the napkin ideas. It >> takes rivers of billions of dollars to build a large scale energy >> infrastructure, and I have to ask where is all that going to come >> from when everyone will be belt tightening? >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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