On 26 Apr 2014, at 21:15, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 26 Apr 2014, at 19:23, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 6:38 PM, 'Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com
>' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes
http://infinitemachine.tumblr.com/image/83867790181
A nice weekend to everyone!
Nice graph; that gives a refreshing perspective on religion... as a
human evolution of cultural behavior and norms, similar to say how
language has a nice tree going back in time.
Indeed. It seems plausible that religions are local maxima of
cooperation strategies. In recent History (compared to the time
scale of this graph), attempts to engineer new cooperation
strategies require the removal of existing religions. This was the
case in both the communist revolutions (Bolshevik and Maoist) and
the enlightenment revolutions (American and French). But naturally
evolved religions are highly-adapted, resilient organisms.
Very nice graph. I appreciate the remark below it, which asks for
some the grains of salt.
I am not sure we can eliminate a religion, but we can substitute it
by another (better or worst) religion.
Perhaps it's useful to make the distinction between religion as the
social construct and religion as the private experience.
Without forgetting religion as truth, or possible truth.
Neither social construct nor private experience are easily related to
that truth, even if they depend on it.
"cooperation strategies" needs some goal/sense, for which the
cooperation makes sense, and such goal refer to some implicit or
explicit religion or reality conception, I think.
I'm not so sure... Maybe our goals can be traced back to simple
things selected by evolution, that all relate to survival +
replication. Then it all collapses into complexification, and the
goals only exist when seeing from the inside -- the species,
organism, etc. This can lead to a view of public religion as more of
a consequence than a cause.
Nothing is obvious for me here. Even if in the 3p, our evolution is
based only on duplication and survival, it does not mean that all this
makes does not acquire sense from higher order perspective (like in
arithmetic, technically).
To survive relatively to a universal machine you have to be locally
self-referentially correct relatively to that universal machine, but
globally + taking into account the first person indeterminacy, and
thus accounts of a non computable complex structure confronting us,
things are less clear to me.
Most of the arithmetical truth is non computable.
Only god(s) know(s) where iteration of survival + replication can lead.
Maybe we have the potential to transcend biology, but I believe that
remains to be seen.
Well, there is transhumanism, which is a sort of will to apply comp as
soon as possible. Google seems to have decided to invest in that
direction.
Then we have the biological shortcuts, the plants which succeeded in
building molecules capable of mimicking some brain molecules. This can
transcend biology at different levels.
For the 3p long term destiny, I doubt we will completely abandon the
carbon, but we will probably come back to something close to a little
"social" bacteria, "with radio and GSM", constituting a giant
computer. The virtual 1p will not necessarily change so much: we will
still see ourselves as humans with arms and legs. This can take a
millennium, and that bacteria, (which becomes quantum at low
temperature) will expand in the arms of the Milky way.
Nice to see buddhism and taoism there, but where is (strong) atheism/
materialism? Hmm.... :)
The graph says v1.1, so maybe you can issue a bug report :)
Where would you say it branches from, in that tree?
I would say from the greeks, and then in some growing percentage of
the abramanic religions. (But it certainly occurs also elsewhere, like
notably in some branch of Hinduism and Buddhism).
Platonism is not dead, just dormant, in basically all religions (if
not in all brain or universal numbers).
We will get virtual, but that is relative, and from the absolute view
we already are (assuming mechanism).
In the arithmetical reality there are two kinds of place we can
access, those where we keep our memories, and those where we don't.
Both are infinite in numbers, but have different relative measure.
Apparently (salvia reports) we can abandon all memories, and then
retrieve them. How can we be sure we retrieve the correct one?
Many unsolved problem, and I usually avoid the use of thought
experiences with amnesia. Those can be related to Saibal Mitra
backtracking idea.
Bruno
Telmo.
Bruno
Telmo.
Chris
Telmo..
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