1. 9-11 in the US answered all questions regarding the Islamists as fair as I am concerned. 2. The applied standard for patriotism is doing actions that help the US survive long enough until the genuine AI is achieved, or Jesus returns, as the Christians desire. Until then, we need to seek to survive and thrive. That's my criteria. 3. I heard that it was closer to 2 trillion dollars in national wealth wasted on the Saddam war. I would have gone into Pakistan, and pursed Bin Laden, and his protectors in the ISI. They would have deposed Musharef, our, Pakistani chum, and would have sought the annihilation of Al Qaeda and affiliated orgs. Bush was buds with the Saudis and that is no mistake, and explains much about the previous administrations decisions.
4. The economic complaint is bogus, in light of BHO's anti-jobs policies economically. He and his party do not believe in job creation that is not affiliated with the democrat party. So he is good with teachers unions, state workers, and federal employees, and trade unions, that funnel cash into democrat pacs. Small businesses provide little for his party, and he has no use for people who 'slow down the process.' Hence, this is why the US joblessness rate has been so high, even after the 09 market crash. Obama has much more crony capitalist contributors then Bush ever had, Koch's not with standing. The trillions would have gone into the pockets of his billionaires, his unions, as it did from 2009 forward. Wall Street loves him-contrary to Marxist prop. The poor get free phones and snap cards. 5. Sure, war is a waste, and a terrible one at that. But its somewhat better then seeing yourself or your buds, conquered and killed, which can be a bummer, sometimes. Let me ask you this? How many protesters do we see world-wide, against the Putin's incursions in the Ukraine, or protesting the war in Syria, the ISIS murders in Iraq?? The streets, had the US did something would have protesters-but! That's not the party way. Protestors are merely anti-US and not pacifists. -----Original Message----- From: ghibbsa <ghib...@gmail.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 16, 2014 2:05 pm Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On Monday, June 16, 2014 1:49:08 AM UTC+great feat saying that one is anti-war, when they claimed is merely, anti-American military. This is clear today, it was clear three decades ago, when "anti-war" protesters, protested only against Pershing missiles in west Europe, and then years before this, during the Vietnam war, where they were against American involvement, but said absolutely nothing about the Khmer Rouge slaying a million Kampucheans. It's just not their world-wide, and what the Soviets did was ok fine. So it was never war they were and are against. Nowadays the same people are against US involvement, but Islamist warfare, is something that they have zero comment over. Rhetorically, speaking, I wonder why? But we both know, really. People can often never be in favor of an idea or a policy, but there is a always the certainty of hated, that quickness the blood, and defines who they are. It's an old game, after all. What is the standard for authentic patriotism in the camp you're in? You are talking about Islamic warfare...there isn't a lot of that on the American continent. So where do you envisage this war talking place, next? Are you able to list what interests the American people have in the region you mention, and what is the dollar cost, you think, for what military objective? How will success or failure be measured? What value has the American people accrued from the Iraq war? It cost about a trillion and half. That's enough to have retooled American industry into a knock down competitive force. American might have had a very different last decade. A lot of people in America are poor, increasing numbers have job insecurity. What is your equation that fighting another war in the middle east (presumably) at presumably another trillion dollars, is a good way to spend those Americans taxes? Or is it a case of, guys that advocate for wars, in a time when vast resources have been poured down the toilet for similar wars with zero value as a result for American people, are by definition good patriots? I mean...what if your motivations aren't patriotic? What's the standard? How can anyone tell? ginal Message----- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> To: everything-list <everyth...@googlegroups.com> Sent: 15-Jun-2014 14:58:21 +0000 Subject: RE: Pluto bounces back! From: everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ever...@googlegroups.com] >>I style myself as informed about the aggressor. Then I take it you have never ever lived in or even visited a Muslim country… you probably do not know any Arabs or other Muslims on a personal level, and have never shared food with them. And yet you consider yourself informed. Strange way of getting informed. >> The clash of civilizations is already here, and has been here, off and on >> for a few decades, in its contemporary form. Yes… I can see that this is what you have concluded, based on second and third hand accounts, written by propagandists with axes to grind. You are so sure of all of your conclusions, without ever having actually been to a Muslim country, without ever having actually met and lived amongst Arabs or other Muslims. You are sure because you read it somewhere, or more likely heard some talking head rave on about this “clash of civilizations”. This does not seem all that rigorous to me; actually it seems rather more like the weak gruel of a regurgitated diet of cherry picked sound bites. >>I do point out that many of the elites side with Saudi royals and accept >>donations from them, and many are liberals, the liberal elites, like the >>Clintons, and on the conservative side, the Bushes. To fight back against the >>Islamist imperialism takes foresight and determination. It also is good to >>know what you stand for and what you stand against? When people are anti-war, >>in the US, it invariably means they are against the US. It is never, ever, >>against the Islamists going to war. Now, I ask, rhetorically, why this is? Haha – are you suggesting that calling into question your extremist and ill-informed world views is a form of anti-American treasonous activity? Typical, and exactly what I expected from an armchair general such as yourself. You have never actually seen war; you do not know what war really is; you are prejudiced and you pine for a genocidal clash of civilizations – but a bloody hell, for other people to go die in and kill for…. because I don’t see you volunteering, chickenhawk! It is cowards, who demand war from the safety of their living rooms. Chris A few questions. Have you ever been to Afghanistan? Have you ever been to any Muslim country at all? I ask, because you seem to style yourself an expert on the thinking and inner mind of people in the Middle East. So naturally I am curious about the nature of your expertise and from what fount of knowledge you drink. Also… you leave me, still left wondering if you have ever actually been in a war zone and seen what war actually is about? Why do I ask? It is to understand some kind of reason for the enthusiasm you seemingly display for a violent clash of civilizations. Chris -----Original Message----- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> To: everything-list <everyth...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 8:16 pm Subject: RE: Pluto bounces back! From: everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ever...@googlegroups.com] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:41 AM To: everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! I submit that with the official religion of Afghanistan, and with the enablement of Sharia, or a watered down form of it under the Afghani royals, is was a sucker for the Soviets. But the Soviets, under Brezhnev, war would have come anyway. It just would not have seemed such a slam dunk. The people, for example in Syria and Iraq, are part of the problem. As far as national complicity, against the Jihad and all that it means, I would have inflicted a lot more. Afghanistan – which I have lived in before the Russians – has suffered war imposed on it by the great powers (of the era) since the British Raj. It is easy to blame these victims of a forty year state of war – counting from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; it is a little bit harder to understand the degree to which their lives have become shattered by war. Maybe because it is uncomfortable to admit our national complicity in the deaths of so many goat and sheep herders. Yes, its called the United States. The people that you cite want to go to paradise, Jannah, so sacrificing sons, and brothers is a noble feat for them, the ticket to women and wine literally. Peace, under Quran, Soonah, Bukhari, is not permitted between a Kurfar (infidel) and a Muslim, on a hudna, a truce is permitted. You cannot separate Afghanistan from its belief systems. You cannot separate Iraq and Syria from its belief systems. A few questions. Have you ever been to Afghanistan? Have you ever been to any Muslim country at all? I ask, because you seem to style yourself an expert on the thinking and inner mind of people in the Middle East. So naturally I am curious about the nature of your expertise and from what fount of knowledge you drink. Also… you leave me, still left wondering if you have ever actually been in a war zone and seen what war actually is about? Why do I ask? It is to understand some kind of reason for the enthusiasm you seemingly display for a violent clash of civilizations. Chris Have you ever lived in a war zone? I have. I have witnessed the horror of modern war (as a young teenager); I have looked into empty soul dead eyes of profoundly traumatized people… have you ever had such experiences? Those who have truly experienced war tend not to be so enthusiastic about violence as a means to solving problems, unless they are psychopaths who enjoy it that is. -----Original Message----- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> To: everything-list <everyth...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:38 pm Subject: RE: Pluto bounces back! From: everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ever...@googlegroups.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! Yes, cycles absolutely can be broken, last things first, but first, people have to see in themselves that something is wrong. This, we must conclude is fairly, rare. The kind of people I am referring to, are the kind of people, that over your dead body, get to heaven in a little green boat, as the kiddie ditty went. On top of this we have unmedicated, and undermedicated, people with deep personality disorders. The Hatfield-McCoy thing when applied elsewhere in the world lack the cultural background. Also, there's no reward to stopping a bad habit, and there's no sufficient incentive to starting good ones. With the mental problem aspect there is something we can do, which is medication and therapy. With cultural-religious driven attacks, this is more complicated. But first, one must have the will and desire to radically change things, on the ground. The ruling elites, have no great incentive to do things which halt what is going on, nor, is there a great enough punishment, if they are doing political malpractice. Thus, the world rolls on as it has. It seems to me that you are ignoring a massive incentive to violence arising from the utter fragmentation of all social structures resulting from an unending state of war, imposed on the suffering goat herders you seem to enjoy demoniz ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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