From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:41 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back!
I submit that with the official religion of Afghanistan, and with the
enablement of Sharia, or a watered down form of it under the Afghani royals, is
was a sucker for the Soviets. But the Soviets, under Brezhnev, war would have
come anyway. It just would not have seemed such a slam dunk. The people, for
example in Syria and Iraq, are part of the problem. As far as national
complicity, against the Jihad and all that it means, I would have inflicted a
lot more.
Afghanistan – which I have lived in before the Russians – has suffered war
imposed on it by the great powers (of the era) since the British Raj. It is
easy to blame these victims of a forty year state of war – counting from the
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; it is a little bit harder to understand the
degree to which their lives have become shattered by war. Maybe because it is
uncomfortable to admit our national complicity in the deaths of so many goat
and sheep herders.
Yes, its called the United States. The people that you cite want to go to
paradise, Jannah, so sacrificing sons, and brothers is a noble feat for them,
the ticket to women and wine literally. Peace, under Quran, Soonah, Bukhari, is
not permitted between a Kurfar (infidel) and a Muslim, on a hudna, a truce is
permitted. You cannot separate Afghanistan from its belief systems. You cannot
separate Iraq and Syria from its belief systems.
A few questions. Have you ever been to Afghanistan? Have you ever been to any
Muslim country at all?
I ask, because you seem to style yourself an expert on the thinking and inner
mind of people in the Middle East. So naturally I am curious about the nature
of your expertise and from what fount of knowledge you drink.
Also… you leave me, still left wondering if you have ever actually been in a
war zone and seen what war actually is about?
Why do I ask? It is to understand some kind of reason for the enthusiasm you
seemingly display for a violent clash of civilizations.
Chris
Have you ever lived in a war zone? I have. I have witnessed the horror of
modern war (as a young teenager); I have looked into empty soul dead eyes of
profoundly traumatized people… have you ever had such experiences?
Those who have truly experienced war tend not to be so enthusiastic about
violence as a means to solving problems, unless they are psychopaths who enjoy
it that is.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Subject: RE: Pluto bounces back!
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:06 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back!
Yes, cycles absolutely can be broken, last things first, but first, people have
to see in themselves that something is wrong. This, we must conclude is fairly,
rare. The kind of people I am referring to, are the kind of people, that over
your dead body, get to heaven in a little green boat, as the kiddie ditty went.
On top of this we have unmedicated, and undermedicated, people with deep
personality disorders. The Hatfield-McCoy thing when applied elsewhere in the
world lack the cultural background. Also, there's no reward to stopping a bad
habit, and there's no sufficient incentive to starting good ones. With the
mental problem aspect there is something we can do, which is medication and
therapy. With cultural-religious driven attacks, this is more complicated. But
first, one must have the will and desire to radically change things, on the
ground. The ruling elites, have no great incentive to do things which halt what
is going on, nor, is there a great enough punishment, if they are doing
political malpractice. Thus, the world rolls on as it has.
It seems to me that you are ignoring a massive incentive to violence arising
from the utter fragmentation of all social structures resulting from an
unending state of war, imposed on the suffering goat herders you seem to enjoy
demonizing in the most colorful language. Afghanistan – which I have lived in
before the Russians – has suffered war imposed on it by the great powers (of
the era) since the British Raj. It is easy to blame these victims of a forty
year state of war – counting from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; it is a
little bit harder to understand the degree to which their lives have become
shattered by war. Maybe because it is uncomfortable to admit our national
complicity in the deaths of so many goat and sheep herders.
Observe the insanity unleashed now in Syria (in which we are again heavily
involved) the monsters on the loose over there and in the Sunni areas of Iraq –
who do you think is backing and funding them (even if through Saudi etc.
proxies).
No doubt monsters are created in war. But more war merely begets more monsters
in an endless and ultimately futile cycle of blood spilling blood.
Have you ever lived in a war zone? I have. I have witnessed the horror of
modern war (as a young teenager); I have looked into empty soul dead eyes of
profoundly traumatized people… have you ever had such experiences?
Those who have truly experienced war tend not to be so enthusiastic about
violence as a means to solving problems, unless they are psychopaths who enjoy
it that is.
Chris
You assume people do violence for no reason other than that they are "vastly
different" (whatever that really means). This is a faulty assumption -- IMO.
People do violence, in almost every case because violence was done to them.
Violence begets violence... it is a self-perpetuating cycle; a Hatfield and
McCoy wheel that goes endlessly around greased by the bloodshed and
carefully nurtured hatred of a really good feud. (and the Hatfield and McCoy
feud is the stuff of legend in the US at least)
It is a very rare event that anyone visits terrible deadly violence upon
others out of the blue; it is either driven by a criminal profit motive or
for blood revenge because of some grievous perceived or actual injury that
violence occurs in real life.
I am also a little curious what you mean by "vastly different". Are "other"
folk not like you? Is their DNA different? Do their brains work differently?
Or could it be that their own tribal call to violence mirrors your own
(apparent call for violence to be visited upon these hypothetical "others")?
If we stopped feeding into it maybe there would be less of this bad shit,
making a bloody mess of the peaceful enjoyment of the many diverse pleasures
of life and the exquisite sensation of being.
The default is for cycles to keep rolling, but they can be broken.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 1:43 am
Subject: RE: Pluto bounces back!
You assume people do violence for no reason other than that they are "vastly
different" (whatever that really means). This is a faulty assumption -- IMO.
People do violence, in almost every case because violence was done to them.
Violence begets violence... it is a self-perpetuating cycle; a Hatfield and
McCoy wheel that goes endlessly around greased by the bloodshed and
carefully nurtured hatred of a really good feud. (and the Hatfield and McCoy
feud is the stuff of legend in the US at least)
It is a very rare event that anyone visits terrible deadly violence upon
others out of the blue; it is either driven by a criminal profit motive or
for blood revenge because of some grievous perceived or actual injury that
violence occurs in real life.
I am also a little curious what you mean by "vastly different". Are "other"
folk not like you? Is their DNA different? Do their brains work differently?
Or could it be that their own tribal call to violence mirrors your own
(apparent call for violence to be visited upon these hypothetical "others")?
If we stopped feeding into it maybe there would be less of this bad shit,
making a bloody mess of the peaceful enjoyment of the many diverse pleasures
of life and the exquisite sensation of being.
The default is for cycles to keep rolling, but they can be broken.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ]
They do not, but their comrades in arms do. Its not your values, its theirs.
People can be vastly, different.
-----Original Message-----
From: LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
On 11 June 2014 23:45, spudboy100 via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I don't know. To me, a huge fatality count for you homeland, might suggest a
huge response. What if your murderers take your civilized response for
weakness and prepare another attack? This would be my concern.t
How do they do that from solitary confinement?
.
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