On 16 Jun 2014, at 00:08, LizR wrote:
On 15 June 2014 22:41, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
On 15 Jun 2014, at 07:19, LizR wrote:
On 15 June 2014 16:49, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 6/14/2014 9:37 PM, LizR wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140608-regret-rats-neuroscience-behavior-animals-science
Interesting that this experiment is all about qualia, which we're
told are ineffable and can't be possessed by computers because
they're not human.
Yes. At least we assume there are qualia involved. The experiment
only measures their "neural correlates" (since you can't ask a rat
what it's experiencing, obviously that's all they can do, of course).
However, I'm sure Bruno would be happy to allow a suitably
programmed computer to have qualia.
Noooo... I am a plastonist. I am happy enough with all the universal
numbers, from the autistic one which never 3p interact with any
others, to the vast spectrum of universal numbers swarm with
interaction and cooperation, which all exist in arithmetic.
It is not the suitably programmed computer which has the qualia
(that would be a Searle-type error), but the person who owns that
computer. A brain is only a computer which handles naturally the
user's software.
Hmm, well in that case a suitably programmed computer can have
qualia, or at least can be associated with a person who has qualia.
I admit I spoke rather loosely, but there's a step in the UDA in
which a person is instantiated in a computer, which is what I was
thinking of.
No problem. It is a common abuse of language that I do all the time,
for being shorter. It is admitted in natural language, as when we talk
about someone, we use often the 3p description as subject of the 1p
thought. In some philosophy of mind context we need to be more precise
though.
On the topic, I don't think qualia are involved in that rat
experience. 3p memory situations and a relevant logic would do.
I have few doubts that rats have qualia, but I would not take such
an experience as confirming or handling that fact.
I wonder if rats scientist have regret of doing some experiences
with rats. Well, I am pretty sure some do and the rats' right
progress, I think (unless the human right lately).
I didn't know there were rat scientists! (Oh wait the Hitch-hiker's
Guide has mouse scientists...)
I guess you knew I meant scientists working on rats.
PS, it looks like I will not answer the posts in chronological order
today.
Time machine malfunction?
The black hole in my basement strikes again. June period; where
mathematicians are often obliged to take some time torturing kids. I
try to be the less harmful as possible, but that takes time (oral
exams). I am a platonist, I know that the answer of the question I ask
is in the head of the student, but it can be hard to extract it.
Bruno
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