RE: Fish can communicate and UNDERSTAND each other!

['Chris de Morsella' via Everything List]

 

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 3:17 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Fish can communicate and UNDERSTAND each other!

 

Liz wrote:

"...The zebra-fish brain imaging (Chris) is a 'physical-world' representation 
of something more than a billon times simpler than our own mentality (if it is 
right to calculate proportions). I would be happy to see 'adaptive behavior' - 
or, 'strategic awareness' in the fish brain examined in physico/physiological 
numerical data comparison only."

Does not compute. Please resubmit your input in English.

 

 

"Does it point to topical features? "

 

 

Slight quibble here: The zebra-fish brain has 60,000 neurons and a human brain 
has around 100 billion neurons (more or less). A human brain has about one 
million and a half times the number of neurons of a zebra-fish. I think it is 
incorrect – then by this metric – to describe it as being one billion times 
simpler, when (by neuron count) the scale of the difference is far closer to 
one million times. No doubt about it however, the fish mind is far simpler than 
a human brain, by many orders of magnitude.

 

 I can try, but it may be even worse. The 'brain-imaging" uses only numerical 
data from physico - physiological measurements within our present scientific 

techniques. - The last sentence you separated belongs to this: I don't know 
about topical differences to understand the measured NUMBERS as to their 
meaning. We can guess. 

Sorry for the typo billion vs. million.  (80,000 in 80,000,000,000)

 

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:34 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

On 10 September 2014 08:56, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:

Liz:

instinctive or learned? our instincts are not 'god-given', they developed by 
learning. 

 

Yes, they are a form of genetic learning.

 

Then you use my favorite put-down word: "adaptive". 

 

Pot, kettle. You just used a put down by calling it a put down.

 

I see no 'adaptation' as assigned to (evolutionary?) mutations. How would a 
creature recognize benefit/disadvantage ratios to DECIDE what is good for her? 
then again: How would the offsprings remember and FIND WAYS to implement the 
GOOD - or eliminate the BAD (as they think of it)? then - HOW would they do it? 
(These are some steps for an adaptation). 

 

I assume you know about natural selection, so that's one filter for genes to 
learn adaptive behaviour. Otherwise, at what I would consider a higher level, 
we have culture in various forms, from learning by imitation to the internet.

 

What seems (to me!) more rational: there are tendecies (pressures?) in the 
infinite world (of which we know only a tiny fraction - but are subjected to 
all) and our complexity responds to them as they expose themselves onto us. 
Given the momentary status with more, or less efficiency. 

 

Sounds like a vague and woolly version of evolution, so (like Brent on many 
occasions) I suspect you are sounding like you disagree but actually agreeing. 

 

The result of such change is what we may call (mutational??) adaptation in the 
coming generations. Good, or bad.  

 

Or we could stick with accepted usage and call it evolution.

 

The zebra-fish brain imaging (Chris) is a 'physical-world' representation of 
something more than a billon times simpler than our own mentality (if it is 
right to calculate proportions). I would be happy to see 'adaptive behavior' - 
or, 'strategic awareness' in the fish brain examined in physico/physiological 
numerical data comparison only.

 

Does not compute. Please resubmit your input in English.

 

Does it point to topical features? 

 

You mean, is the fish thinking about sun-cream? I'm afraid we can only 
conjecture at this stage. 

 

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