On 22 Sep 2014, at 00:13, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/21/2014 9:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 19 Sep 2014, at 21:10, John Clark wrote:
although his name wasn't on the original paper Bohr was without a
doubt the greatest teacher of quantum mechanics who ever lived and
he was extraordinarily generous in giving away his good ideas to
his students.
> You don't like Aristotle, but for a Platonist QM is rather
natural, if not obvious.
Then why didn't Plato discover Quantum Mechanics 2500 years ago?
Because no sane person would propose such a crazy idea if they
weren't forced to do so by the crazy outcome of certain experiments.
Plato got the most crazy idea of all time: the idea that perhaps
reality is not what we see. It is at the origin of science and
religion, with science = the tool, and religion the goal.
Unfortunately we have separate them, and science took a look of
pseudo-religion (in the metaphysical domain) and religion took the
look of political power having no genuine relation with the
original theological idea: to unify all branches of knowledge,
including the mystical one, which "are in our head".
I think you've got that backwards. Plato's idea that reality is not
what we see got distorted into we need not observe, we can discover
the truth by just thinking, feeling, wishing, imagining perfect
forms. This led to the Christian Dark Ages in Europe when reason
and curiosity bordered on sin and faith and belief based on
authority was the cardinal virtue.
Not at all. This led to mathematics and to the opening of the mind for
mathematical explanation(s) of the physical and perhaps reality.
The main inspiring idea for something simple, non observable and which
might be at the origin of the observable was arithmetic and music. The
curriculum of the platonist theologian was arithmetic, music, logic,
geometry, and astronomy/cosmology.
The Dark age was just unavoidable when occident separate science from
religion, allowing the use of non-modesty in the filed which needs it
the most. They banish the rational and mystic theologian, close the
academy of Plato, and used a perversion of theology/religion as a tool
to control people.
It was eventually broken by astronomical observation and a conflict
between what is observed and what was deduced from armchair
philosophizing.
It has ben broken on the observable, but the delire has continued to
be tolerated if not encouraged on the non-observable. It has also
imposed the religious (and apparently wrong) idea that observable =
real, non-observable = unreal, where, well, both the theories (comp,
QM) and the facts (the verified quantum weirdness, like Aspect,
quantum computations, etc.) suggest that the real is not observable
and the observable is one aspect of the non observable.
As I said aoften, the Enlightened Period was only half-enlightenment.
On the main thing (the theory of everything, theology) we remain half
in the dark age. We continue to put minds and persons under the rug.
Bruno
Brent
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