From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: generalizations_of_islam
On 03 Oct 2014, at 00:04, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
Spiritual as you said is a personal quest; religion (which you are correct
derives from the Latin verb religos "to bind together") is institutional
>>Hmm... Not necessarily. And not necessarily with coercion at the social
>>level, but easily so at the familial level. But very often so, including for
>>the "atheist religion", in the USSR and in my place according to some
>>people.Today we are doing the "error" again, in the field of medicine, where
>>the state can legislate on the meta-level, but not on the health level, which
>>is work of the doctor and shaman and you only.
True... all manner of human institutions and ideologies attempt to coerce
individuals into marching in lock step with the prevailing interpretation of
the dogma. However when a religion does so it can obtain an even more powerful
hold on the human psyche than a secular dogma can because the believer -- in
the particular faith -- believes that the everlasting destiny of their eternal
soul depends on how their current behavior is judged -- by the supreme deity
(or their self-appointed stand-ins)All ideologies will seek to bind adherents
or believers into some common set of beliefs etc. -- I can see that and agree
with your observation. However the binding of religion (for the true believers
at least) is a binding upon which the destiny of their soul depends.
and results in political institutions more centered on the quest to preserve
their privilege and their power than on anything else.
>>That happens with unions, politics, mafia. All protecting system (of your
>>right, freedom, health) will only protects itself *against* those for who it
>>has been built to protect, when the power separations leak.
Agreed.
Even if a religion where started based on purely good -- on just and only
excellently great ideas! -- within a few generations it will become a vehicle
to the exercise of earthly power and will attract the kinds of psychopaths whom
are attracted to positions where they are able to exert arbitrary power over
other people.
>>That is why the buddhist says that at some point you have to kill all the
>>buddhas.
Or the Zen Master who responded to the disciple about what he thought of the
Buddha's teachings (e.g. books) responded that they should be thrown onto the
dung heap!
>>But if theology would come back to academy, the religion institution would
>>have evolved accordingly. Everyone would know the basic (machine) theology
>>and dismiss as "mad" anyone acting in invoking publicly the name of what
>>can't have a name nor be named.
In an ideal world perhaps.... But of what use to power and the small elites,
who invariably monopolize power in all cultures, is such a free spirited openly
enquiring academy? Far more useful to have a monolithic, dogmatic state
religion based on the visceral fear of losing out on the after life, should the
subject step out of line in their current -- actual -- life. Religion becomes
the way it is, because Power requires it to be that way.Chris
The sound Lôbian machines know that if they are consistent, they have to be
incomplete, and they can have an idea of their fundamental ignorance about
truth.
Bruno
From: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: generalizations_of_islam
On 10/2/2014 8:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Religion and spirituality are not barbaric, like medication are not dangerous.
But the distinction between spirituality and religion is that spirituality is
personal, while it is part of the definition of religion that it "binds
together". One "belongs to" a religion. A religion is defined by a set of
dogma.
Brent
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