> On 17 Jan 2015, at 12:46 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/15/2015 8:31 PM, Kim Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 Jan 2015, at 5:18 am, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 1/15/2015 3:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>> It is the reason why I stopped, a long time ago, to qualify myself as an
>>>> atheist. I realized that atheists believe to much in the christian God,
>>>> paradoxically enough.
>>>
>>> By your logic one cannot disbelieve in anything because to do so you have
>>> to conceive of what it is your are failing to believe (otherwise you don't
>>> know what you're talking about);
>>
>>
>> Well, yes. Of course you have to be able to conceive of what you are going
>> to make a choice to believe in or not! Implying that you "have the right" to
>> disbelieve in something you cannot conceive of is the height of sophistry.
>> You are merely testifying to the limitation of your own, or of human
>> imagination but that is precisely the terrain we are treading here: the
>> interface of human ignorance with what is really real.
>>
>> Of course the human imagination cannot conceive of God the way God is. This
>> is because WE ARE ALL THE EYES AND EARS OF GOD. The eye cannot see itself.
>> The hammer cannot hit itself. It can only infer it's true nature using the
>> imagination and HOPE that the description adopted is exact. It never is. We
>> cannot know what or who we are. It's a pretty miserable state of affairs,
>> particularly if you are a hard-nosed scientist, I gather.
>
> Hard-nosed scientists are inured to not knowing things.
...until someone challenges the hard-nosed scientist about something he
considers he knows, I guess. Then he usually demonstrates somehow his need to
defend his belief in what he thinks he knows, rather than seriously entertain
the possibility he may be wrong about that. Must have gone to a Jesuit college
or university...
> It's mystics who insist on making up an answer because they are uncomfortable
> with uncertainty.
That's right. I don't read the ravings of too many mystics around here so I
hope you weren't trying to point the finger. You are right. We must be
comfortable with uncertainty as Heisenberg showed and this is the hardest thing
for a human to achieve because the human mind is designed to seek certainty in
all things. It's our greatest shortcoming because it shackles our ability to be
effective creative designers and thinkers because rather than seek what works
we seek only "what is right" and we cannot ultimately know that, thankyou the
theologian known as Gödel.
Thank's for demonstrating this blindspot so effectively. We are forever, as a
consequence of the puerile (that's the word, I'm afraid) human need for
certainty in the hands not of the theologians but the theocrats of every shape
and hue and affiliation and tribe and clan.
K
>
> Brent
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