On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 3:04 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 2:52:34 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:48 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < >> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 12:27:06 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:11 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < >>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Roger, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a question for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you believe the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of Pi has a >>>>>> certain definite value, which is either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9? >>>>>> >>>>>> If so, would you still believe this if you knew that this number is >>>>>> too difficult to ever compute by anyone in this universe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this not point to a discontinuity between mathematical truth and >>>>>> conceivably of that truth by us limited creatures with limited minds in a >>>>>> limited universe? Perhaps it does take faith to believe that digit takes >>>>>> a >>>>>> certain value between 0 and 9, but it's easier for me to accept that on >>>>>> faith than the converse (that it is not any one of those digits). >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> >>>>> What I believe is that there is no proposition outside a mind/head >>>>> that relates a circle's circumference and its diameter to get a number >>>>> called pi. >>>>> >>>> >>>> But that wasn't my question. Do you think that that the digit has a >>>> certain definite value (despite not being known by any human) or perhaps >>>> any being in this physical universe? Let's work by steps, do you think the >>>> 10^1th digit has a definite value? Do you think the 10^6th digit has a >>>> certain definite value? Do you think the 10^Nth digit has a definite value >>>> (for any given N)) ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> What I think does exist is: >>>>> >>>>> o A circle could exist either outside the mind or inside the mind/head >>>>> as the mental construct labeled "a circle". >>>>> >>>>> o It takes a mind to come up with a proposition that says that if you >>>>> divide the circumference of a circle by its diameter, you get pi, and that >>>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of this pi is one of the numbers from >>>>> 0-9. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Do you believe that *one and only one* of the following statements is >>>> true? >>>> >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 0 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 1 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 2 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 3 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 4 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 5 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 6 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 7 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 8 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 9 >>>> >>>> Either you answer yes, or no to that question. If you answer yes, I >>>> don't see how you can escape mathematical realism. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>> Jason, >>> >>> I believe the following: >>> >>> o I do believe that the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi is either >>> 0-9. >>> >> >> Yet no mind has conceived what it is. It exists and yet it exists outside >> the mind of any person, which seems counter to your clams below. >> > >> >>> >>> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi and its value of 0-9 >>> exists only in the mind of the person where the proposition defining pi >>> exists. >>> >> >> So does defining what Pi is lead to the existence of all of its infinite >> digits, even if those digits are never considered by a conscious mind? >> >> If a conscious mind can reify other things it doesn't concevie why does >> any mind need to reify the first concept (of pi) at all? >> > > Roger: Even if no mind has yet conceived the the 10^(10^(10^100))th > decimal point of pi, the pi proposition and therefore the process of > calculating its 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point and being confident that > if you do the process that that number is either 0-9 are all located inside > the mind/head. My view is that whenever we talk about something existing, > we have to specify where and when it exists, that is, in what context or > domain it exists. A thing can exist in one place and not another. A ball > can exist outside the head, and a mental construct labeled "the concept of > a ball" can exist inside the head. > If a ball can exist outside the mind/head, why can't the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi exist outside the mind/head? What property must a thing have to have an independent existence outside of any mind? (according to your theory?) Jason > So, if the pi process were carried out inside the mind/head long enough to > figure out the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point, that mental construct for > that number (which would be 0-9) would exist inside the mind/head but not > outside the mind/head. So, the mind is able to reify things (like the > 10^(10^(10^100))th > decimal point of pi) so that they exist but so that they only exist inside > the mind/head and not outside the mind/head. > >> >> >>> >>> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi does not exist outside the >>> mind of the person where the proposition defining pi is. >>> >>> I also believe that the above was easily deducible from my first >>> reply >>> >> >> Do you see how the above sentence can be construed as condescending? >> >> >>> and that there's no need to be condescending (Your "Let's work by >>> steps"). >>> >> >> I did not intend to be condescendin, I only sought greater clarification >> because your original post did not directly address my question. Breaking a >> complex problem into steps can isolate where the disagreement (if any) >> exists. >> >> Jason >> > > Roger: Agreed. > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> So, this proposition and its value as true or false only exists >>>>> inside a mind/head even if it describes a circle that's outside the mind. >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
