From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: "everything-list@googlegroups.com" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Free Speech is not Free unless it is allowed for every point of
view
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:15 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
Seconded (I am allowed to say that, right?)
Of course it isn't just France. And some countries go one step further and
actively brainwash their citizens from an early age into thinking they are
wonderful, and thus try to prevent even the possibility of "thoughtcrime".
I completely agree with you and Chris on this.
The tragic thing for me, as an European, is that the USA were the ones leading
the way in terms of free speech. Europe never adopted something as strong as
the first amendment. Europeans love to say the "free speech has its limits",
which is a nonsensical, in my opinion.
I agree with you. Any restrictions on Free Speech need to be very carefully
considered and constrained. For example it is possible to make a pretty
convincing argument that threatening to kill someone, especially in a serious
manner should not enjoy the protections of free speech;; with the argument
being that the harm caused to the intended target, by the terroristic threat
(the legal term in the US) is far greater than the loss incurred by having
one's free speech curtailed in this manner.But, it is also true that any
special exceptions such as this can quite quickly lead down a slippery slope to
an ever expanding set of prohibited types of speech.Free Speech, is not easy to
support, because it requires oneself to understand that this means that the
speech of really horrible human beings is also therefore protected.
>>I always assume that Europe would catch up with the USA on this.
>>Unfortunately, it seems that the opposite is happening.
The US is a cautionary tale of just how fast hard won individual liberties and
rights can be legislated away. Security (and "safety") have always been the
justification of totalitarian systems for depriving their subjects of free
speech and freedom to assemble. I had put a lot of hope in Europe putting the
breaks on our slide down into a purely ceremonial "democracy" that in practice
is more and more becoming "democratic" window dressing over the actual rule of
the rising secret security state... that delivers "secret justice", and has a
"secret due process"
On 18 January 2015 at 17:06, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
It is sad to see, for France has such a heritage, but it seems there is
diminishing actual functioning Free Speech rights in France; when scores of
people are getting arrested and thrown into jail for unpopular free speech,
which in France has now become the new Orwellian thought crime of “supporting
terrorism”.Either Free Speech applies to all; or it does not apply. If
unpopular – and even repugnant -- free speech is punished with long jail terms;
then the state sanctioned mechanisms are in place for destroying effective
right of free speech, which soon becomes free only when it reflects the desire
of those who rule. --
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