On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 7:26 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote: > > >>> Humans apply pressure on the floor when standing up, so Evolution is >>>> responsible for mass and gravity? >>>> >>> >>> >> No, but Evolution is responsible for the fact that humans can stand >>> up, or that humans can do anything at all for that matter >>> >> >> > So evolution is responsible for the fact that organisms apply pressure >> on surfaces? >> > > Yes, but you could have figured that out by yourself. > Organisms apply pressure on surfaces, even if they are dead. This is just a property of chunks of solid matter. Evolution did not create this behaviour, it just has to account for it to do other things. The same can be true of consciousness, without falsifying darwinian evolution. > > >> >>> The assumptions that consciousness is something organisms do, >>>> >>> >>> >> That is not an assumption that is a matter of direct experience and >>> thus needs no proof; I am a organism and I am conscious. >>> >> >> > But do you generate it? >> > > I think you're getting silly. > > >> > Is it something you do? >> > > I think you're getting very silly. > > >> >>> that conscious is a byproduct of something >>>> >>> >>> >> If Darwin was correct then the above must be true. And I think Darwin >>> was correct. >>> >> >> > That doesn't follow unless you can show that consciousness is something >> organisms generate. >> > > I think you're getting very very silly. > > > You're avoiding the question. > > > That's because I don't know what the question is. > The question is simple: why can't organisms generated by evolutionary processes possess properties that are not the result of evolutionary pressure? Because your argument hinges on assuming that this is not possible. > > >> > that consciousness is generated somehow, >>>> >>> >>> >> When I'm asleep >>> >> >> > This is trivially false. We are conscious while dreaming. >> > > We don't always dream when sleeping in fact we usually don't, we only > dream during REM sleep and that only happens for about one hour per night. > > >> or under anesthesia I'm not conscious >>> >> >> > You can't prove that. >> > > True, but I've got something far far better than a proof to convince me > that it's true, direct experience. > You don't know. The only thing you know is that you are not able to form memories under anaesthesia. The simplest explanation is that this is because you are not, indeed, conscious. But it's not the only explanation. Telmo. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
