On 30 Apr 2015, at 06:16, Kim Jones wrote:
On 30 Apr 2015, at 1:20 pm, Bruce Kellett
<bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Kim Jones wrote:
On 30 Apr 2015, at 12:34 pm, Bruce Kellett <bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
> wrote:
If everything is to 'happen' in Platonia, you need to specify a
temporal variable. This is not trivial, and I have not seen any
convincing explanation of how you intend to do this.
Bruce
The way I understand it, nothing happens in Platonia. Which is to
say nothing ever happens. The real question is why we think stuff
is 'happening'. Well, OK - the hallucination that stuff is
happening is what is happening.
So explain the hallucination. Why does that 'happen'. Note that
'happen' is a temporal term.
Bruce
Sure - no argument. I don't think we can explain this using
language. We need math for that. Enter Bruno; even you, Bruce. Your
maths ability is right up there. Language is predicated on the
assumption that things exist and happen.
What is the mathematical equivalent of nouns and verbs?
I was told at school that 'a sentence which does not contain a verb
is not a sentence' which I gather was meant to imply 'you have not
managed to say anything if you don't use a verb' which is bollocks,
of course.
Assuming Bruno's comp, numbers are the only things which
(necessarily) exist.
Bruno's comp implies all the comp in the literature. It is a very weak
hypothesis. I guess you meant: according to Bruno's reasoning. Bruce
has just to find a flaw if he disagrees with the conclusion. That only
numbers exists is not part of comp at all. It is part of the
consequences.
I know you know that, but with people cutting air, it is important to
be as precise as possible.
Number is the primitive we are striving to identify.
Or combinators, or lambda-expression. Any first order logical
specification of any Turing universal system would do. better to not
use a physical one, as the derivation of physics would be confusing. I
use numbers only because people are familiar with them.
We cannot say what number 'is' because that is like saying what ( )
is and as you can see there is nothing inside those brackets. You
can only describe what you can perceive.
Nobody perceives nothing.
We can intuit the numbers. Gödel saw this as a kind of perception, but
I don't follow him on this.
The point is that we don't need to know what are numbers (that is
philosophy of math). We need only to agree on some axioms, like x + 0
= x, x + s(y) = s(x + y), etc.
So, we are forever describing our (shared) hallucination about
'existing' and 'happening'. This appears to be the meaning of life.
To experience a hallucination whose origin and persistence cannot be
explained. Hence the need for some kind of understanding of the
necessary (Gödelian) restriction on what can be known and/or
explained (Incompleteness).
It's incredibly annoying, isn't it....
It is the bad news indeed. Very often, people like philosophy and
theology because they think it is a place where we can say what we
want, but with comp, the reality kicks back there too, and we have to
come back on math, and, well yes, some amount of seriousness.
But dreams, drugs, meditation, brain perturbation, plausibly death,
can provide shortcuts.
So here is the choice: 30 years of math study, or 4m of a salvia
experience ;)
Bruno
K
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
