On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 1:03:48 PM UTC+10, Liz R wrote: > > On 25 May 2015 at 00:34, Pierz <pie...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 9:08:30 PM UTC+10, spudb...@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> I sure did, Telmo. Scroll to the bottom and you shall view my last, >>> number 26th, the last one. This kind of thing is interesting to me. I tend >>> toward the materialist stuff since it seems to have potential. The >>> mentalist stuff seems unreliable because people who have NDE's or trances >>> have not come back with information. >> >> >> ? Highly debatable! It's true that so far I'm not aware of any >> experiments in which NDE subjects reported the content of cards put in >> places only visible from the ceiling (as some researchers have tried) >> >> This could invalidate the "top-down" view often reportedly experienced in > NDEs, but my 13 year old daughter told me the other day that she can easily > imagine herself from an outside viewpoint (we weren't talking about NDEs or > anything like that) so it is certainly possible for people to do this. > Hence people being "conscious" in some sense during NDEs isn't invalidated > by their inability to spot cards hidden on top of cabinets, even if the > viewpoint described is. It remains possible that they are aware of their > surroundings.....mind you I'm also very sceptical of this woman's report, > how exact and well testified is it, and could she have picked up the > information smoe other way? >
It's not invalidated - those not predisposed to credit the legitimacy of NDEs naturally latch onto this, while those predisposed to believe tend to downplay it. Confirmation bias. But there are credible explanations for the failure to confirm (so far) via cards - firstly it is difficult to get enough subjects, because one can't organize someone's near death easily, only about 10% of people who come close to death have such an experience, and not all NDEs involve the classic "looking down from the ceiling" experience. Furthermore, people undergoing a near death experience are not lab rats running a maze - they are typically fascinated by the sight of their own body and the drama surrounding it, so it's plausible that a card stuck to the top of a cabinet simply does not attract their attention. You should be skeptical of the report of course - extraordinary claims bla bla. But invariably people who presume NDEs 'can't' be legit don't investigate them properly, or read just enough to get to the first skeptical account which then safely confirms their assumptions. Brent's one sentence dismissal is typical, and typically inaccurate. Far from exaggerating and confabulating (though no doubt some people do), NDE experiencers tend to keep their experience secret for fear of ridicule or being thought nuts. And the experience is typically so intense and vivid that it in no way resemble a dream or delirium in which second hand reports or later memories could get confused with the original experience. The particular case I cited was both *highly* accurate and witnessed by multiple persons, including the neurosurgeon who for example stated there was no way she could have heard the conversations she reported - because she was profoundly unconscious according to her EEG, and because she had earphones on at the time that were emitting deafening noise. I don't get into arguments about it because it is boring and frustrating, I just encourage people to look into it for themselves. I have some interest in it because my mother had one which changed her life in a big way. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
