All well and good, but I am surmising that you underestimate the vindictiveness from others, who see life differently than yourself. For instance, the European epoch of imperialism, which we all know about, is shameful look backwards for the Europeans. For the Islamic expansions of the 7th century, the move into the Indian subcontinent, the push into southeast asia, are considered a glorious time for the Uma. It is considered a thing of great pride. The re-establishment of the Caliphate, would get the community back into the grace of Allah, and its return would be a sign from God that He is smiling down, and is pleased by His people.
You and I don't agree with this point of view, but I respect that this view is their "truth." I accept it as I must accept a natural calamity like an earthquake of a plague. If you are asking whether it will be ISIS puling the trigger on the Qufar? It might happen that way, and they do sell oil, so they have finance. They also have audacity, which sometimes wins the day. But I am not planning US foreign policy or am a defense department analyst. I do know that if one despises somebody intensely, enough, they will go for the jugular. There are different ways to defend the country. One would be applied green energy systems, at first for emergencies like power outages, another, would be to yes, do the shale thing, but also consider methane powered vehicles, and yes biogas powered vehicles and homes. This could be a national program and worth paying for, and thus, better insulate the US, or Australia, Japan, etc, from let us say, the closure of the straight of Hormuz. Remember, the question was originally posed about the strength of ISIS, and I focused on the weakness of the current world leaders, and so far, their weakness has empowered ISIS, and other actors in the world. -----Original Message----- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:57 pm Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III? No I am objecting to the making of ISIS into the central existential problem that must define our times; they are a largely regional phenomenon (with a certain internet reach resulting from their use of graphic brutality). The planet earth has far more serious existential problems than ISIS. ISIS is a side freak show – a freak show of extreme brutality for sure, but a freak show never the less. If Saudi/Kuwaiti funding was shut off the monster would quickly dry up and wither away. ISIS is Iraq’s problem, it is Syria’s problem, it is Iran’s or the Kurd’s problem perhaps, but it is not and never will amount to an existential military threat against the West. I do not see any good reason why our country should become even more involved in this mess than it already is – having largely been responsible for the creation of the conditions which led to the evolution of these psychopath monsters in the first place. ISIS (nor anything like it) did not exist under the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein lest we forget; the Baathist regime was an implacable enemy of Islamic fundamentalism; it was a Stalinist regime in fact (a very different animal). The US (in its infinite wisdom) utterly destroyed the Baathist regime in a series of bloody expensive wars and a ten year long occupation of Iraq; ISIS is the predictable blowback of Abu Ghraib and the US occupation of Iraq during the first decade of this millennium. Now, I am not extolling the Baathist regime as a paradigm of humanism (though woman and Christians, to cite some examples, had far more rights and opportunity under Saddam Hussein’s Iraq than they do in the Iraqi “freedom” the US so kindly brought to their land). The US should focus more on taking care of our own country and let other people sort out their own destinies. Let Iran handle ISIS (and to a degree ISIS is a proxy war between the Gulf Arab regimes and the Iranians); why should we bloody our hands in this mess? ISIS is no existential threat to the US and if we stood out of the way (or as we are to some extent to continue to provide discreet logistical and air support) Iranian and Kurdish backed forces from one side and Syrian/Hezbollah forces from the other side will keep ISIS very well contained. Those who seek to learn about the rise of ISIS need to understand the roles played by these various regional actors prominently including: Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Gulf states in fomenting ISIS as a tool to destroy the Baathist Syrian regime – and seen in the larger context of an arc of struggle between Saudi, Turkish and Iranian influence broken down largely along sectarian lines. -Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:53 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III? I don't think this is Manicheanism, You are objecting to fact that ISIS does bad things, or that people oppose the bad things that ISIS does? The leadership of the US especially, view passivity on the US part, as an unalloyed virtue. On the other hand, with the president's involvement wit Iran (read the news tomorrow) may have decided to adopt a "let em kill each other," policy in which Sunni's and Shia, massacre each other. Perhaps with the thought that with enough war and massacre's maybe a calm will then take place? -----Original Message----- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 9:48 pm Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III? Who elected you dispenser of prizes, ignobal or otherwise…. net nanny? As you make clear by your own subsequent words I can see you must be a fellow sufferer of the Manichean delusion, speaking in those exaggerated apocalyptic tongues you types favor. Thanks, but no thanks… I don’t need, desire or see the fruit in your peculiar kind of religion; mind set; world view… whatever you wish to call it. It is not based on a rational analysis of actual geopolitical strength, but rather appeals to irrational Manichean idiocy and lurid anecdotal tales told over and over again. This world of ours is enough of a tinder box already without the added idiocy of war mongering nutters – like ISIS as well -- wanting to ignite another crusade/jihad. I hope this makes my opinion even clearer to you. Just in case, in typical Manichean fashion you use my complete rejection of your hyperbolic world view, as a rhetorical hammer to try to shape me into some kind of sympathizer or something vaguely treasonous sounding – as your fellow crusader spudboy has in fact insinuated in my case on numerous previous occasions – let me – a priori – make it clear that my current complete rejection of your insane fallacy does not imply any kind of support or tolerance of the medieval minded brutality of the murderous lunatics of ISIS. Just so we are clear on this, and because this is a usual rhetorical tactic that war junkies commonly use against those who publicly oppose their agenda. Now speaking directly to your facile and childish disparaging of the term “psychological mind ghosts”. If you actually knew the mind – instead of merely pontificating about it, which you seem to do a lot of -- you would know that there is quite a bit of evidence that our minds are inhabited by numerous zombie neural processes, of which we remain consciously unaware; these are our mind ghosts; they are ghosts in our minds. We – the conscious self-aware part of ourselves at least -- are to a large degree informed and formed by these dynamically evolving entities comprised of synchronized neural firing networks. They can take dynamic movies of these neural firing networks evolving as thoughts form and perception is perceived! If we did not have any ghosts in our minds; would we have any minds at all? Those who think their self-aware minds are comprised by the narrative voice in their heads alone, are suggestive of those who, for so long believed the celestial bodies revolved around the earth. If, in fact, you accept that by far most of who you are actually occurs outside of the boundaries of your own self-aware narrative (and narrator); then why on earth would you feel that “psychological mind ghosts” was just an insult, worthy of your net nanny interventionist response, awarding me the most Ignobal prize – so kind of you to do that really. More people die of bee stings… bathtub falls… and certainly far more people die and become horribly wounded in traffic accidents than people dying by this kind of terrorism; yet you seem to want to raise it up on the altar of some bloody crusade around which we must all align ourselves marching lemming like over the cliffs of oblivion. Excuse me, but I am going to pass on that world view, and I will continue to ridicule it as well; it is a world view most richly deserving of ridicule. Let us laugh together… for it is patently ridiculous that ISIS poses an existential threat to the USA, or even to your own country Australia. Unless you are living in Syria or Iraq, or somewhere that is too close to the small region where ISIS has the logistical ability to pose a threat then it is not a threat and to insist that it must be our most existential cause around which we must all rally… well that just reeks of fascism to me. Yours truly, -Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Jones Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 5:40 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III? On 12 Jul 2015, at 3:09 am, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: You suffer from raving psychological mind ghosts; carefully nurtured paranoid Manichean delusions brought upon by the ingestion of too much war propaganda. "Psychological mind ghosts" - Lol. I think with that you probably score the Ignobel Prize for adjectival abuse. SB's thinking on this is entirely rational and highly probable from where I am. Western leaders ARE all as weak as piss. They are all screaming for someone to come along and rip their bloody heads off with a blunt bread knife, yes. Icke is something of a nutter, but he at least has the balls to face the music that no one else does. Kim From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:36 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III? Icke is an interesting, but paranoid character. If ISIS, or any element from the Islamic World causes a 4th world war (The Cold War was actually WW3), then it is not any member of the Uma's fault, but instead the weakness, the cowardice, the irresolution, of 'so called' Western leaders. Perfection with one's fellows humans is fraught with disappointment, because people will always disappoint. But, the leadership of the so-called West, is so bad that it invites attack from ISIS or anyone else.As Bin Laden said, "People like the stronger horse." Leaders here are so weak, that if ISIS attacked, they might win. Who now knows? -----Original Message----- From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 1:36 am Subject: Fwd: ISIS The Start of World War III? Begin forwarded message: ISIS The Start of World War III? 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