2015-07-14 12:51 GMT-03:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
>:
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 8:56 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
My issue is that yes, at this point ISIS seem to present no domestic
danger, however leaders of the word have continuously underestimated
their successes. Italy may be their next target, or Spain in a Re-
Conquista of their own. Moreover, this ideology is not in its
actions, alone in the Islamic world. But they are, for propaganda
purposes, the most honest, and clear, and yes, successful.
A terrorist act here and there in Italy, Spain or France (or
ANYWHERE) – and that is all ISIS is capable of, even at a stretch –
does not cause the targeted society to crumble in abject submission.
You mention re-concquista – I ask you where is this re-conquista?,
outside of the talk shows it is mentioned on.
So, what to do? Nobody (astonishingly) is asking my advice on this,
or any other matter, which is shocking to me. Having said this, I am
supposing that bad Ju-Ju is on the way, because of western
weaknesses (my perception) and prepare. It may not be ISIS that does
the dirty dead, whatever "deed" that is, but ISIS, like an
aggressive, secondary disease, will take advantage of a weakened
immune system. You seem to have a lot of interest in energy, of
course, so if I were you, I'd focus on saving your own behind in the
midst of an "unplanned" power outage, that PGE, or Seattle Power and
Light, will not resolve for weeks, for this seems to be a juicy
target, I'd wager. I am an apartment dweller so following this
advice myself (however hypocritical) is unwise.
A single solar flare of the intensity of the super flare that was
recorded in the late 1800s would set up an induced current that
would short out entire grid, blowing transformers. This is something
that actually can happen (in fact it HAS happened less than 150
years ago) and would have far more disastrous consequences for our
society. Are we doing anything to protect ourselves from this very
real threat? Not much, as far as I can see; hardening the grid will
cost many billions of dollars, and unless mandated this money will
not be spent. So we continue on exposed to this – actual real threat
(as opposed to the bogey man threats you seem to love to focus on).
This is just a single example of our societal myopia.
The world will follow the Stronger Horse, so if ISIS goes from
strength to strength,
But ISIS is not going from strength to strength – Syrian/Hezbollah
forces are rolling it back from the west; Kurdish forces (+Iranian
supported Iraqi forces) are enjoying some success in the east (it is
mixed, because the Iraqi army is a shambles). ISIS is not strong.
Don’t confuse brutality with strength; Iran can take care of ISIS
(and will, defeating the Saudi attempt (for what is ISIS?) at
interjecting itself into the arc of conflict now centered in Syria.
the Europeans will cut a deal with them, once ISIS gains more
territory, gets more cash, recruits more cash, whatever it takes. If
not ISIS than Al Qaeda, if not Al Qaeda, then Iranian Mullahs
Iran has never supported messianic global terrorist movements;
Hezbollah for example is a very kind of organization than say AL
Qaida or ISIS (which it is on the front line of fighting)
(check today's news! If not Iran, maybe Pakistan, if not Pakistan,
North Korea, if not North Korea, then a nice war in the Pacific with
China, if not China, then Putin. Maybe all of them at once, once we
lose a city or three, afterwards. The majority of of our species
despises the weak, and I accept this, but do not condone this. Just
thinking of what anthropologists have demonstrated.
I highly suggest you take a vacation from war fever it is unhealthy.
China and the US are not about to get into any war – it would be far
to costly for both sides and both sides know this! All the posturing
in the South China Sea may make for large headlines, but it will not
trigger an actual large scale war. Now the Ukraine is another story
– though this is mostly a nightmare for the Ukrainians themselves.
If the US has all this power, we surely have applied it wrong, or
the political will to use it against bad actors.
I wonder if you fully grasp just how much power even a single US
aircraft carrier group can project. I am speaking of real military
power – not terrorist rag tag actions of militarily insignificant
actors such as ISIS. Terrorism is the weapon of the weak; it is no
sign of strength!
The extinction that you refer to could be alleviated with better
energy systems, and better housing systems.
Could be perhaps, but it isn’t being!
The richer people are, the lighter the environmental footprint.
That is BS! The US for example has a far higher per capita footprint
than India or China or Africa or South America.
Do realize, that the elites have do stomach to do this either yet-
have you noticed? There are great energy ideas but for some magical
reason they don't get traction. It reflects the same irresolution on
dealing with international totalitarianism. No will, no guts,
The world is run to produce short term profits for central global
money banks; as long as this remains the driver; world affairs will
continue on as they have, bouncing from regional war to regional war
(war is good business, for the death merchants and the death bankers)
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2015 5:41 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
No… not underestimating the vindictiveness of ISIS (and their ilk)
at all; nor am I disputing that ISIS are vindictive vicious
monsters, actually.
This particular flourishing of assembled psychotic insane assholes
most certainly do suffer an extreme delusional messianic medieval
minded hatred of all others and are vindictive in the extreme. I
harbor no doubts that they would slit my throat – in their psychosis
claiming it was for Allah -- if they could.
I however do question their long term viability as an organization
and movement – even within the regional context within which they
operate. For example, even Al Qaeda itself is becoming increasingly
critical of ISIS and its barbaric brutality! When, even the
preeminent jihadi global movement is finding their acts to be
horrific and unjustifiable you got to question their long term
viability as a movement!
I also question their strategic/tactical/logistical reach and doubt
that they can do much more than potentially causing a few sporadic
terrorist attacks here and there in the Western world and elsewhere
(Africa, Asia for example). A terrorist attack, even one of the
hyper scale of 911 (which is historically very rare), horrific as it
may be (and I witnessed 911 up close and personal – was in Princeton
NJ at the time and the aftermath was something I will never
forget!), but yet still poses no existential strategic challenge for
our nation. Our nation will not crumble or be destroyed as an
effective fighting force because of something of this nature.
Actually the opposite result would ensue! The USA has continental
scale strategic depth, global military, political, cultural and
economic reach. A ragtag upstart psychopath jihadist brand name –
e.g. ISIS – poses no actual existential threat to the US.
And that IS my point!
My corollary to this is that our planet is currently facing real
actual existential threats, which we can do something about – both
in terms of mitigating our impact and restoring the health of this
planets living systems. Few people like to consider that we are
living at the kickoff of one of our planets greatest extinction
events – ever in its geologic history; an extinction event that
promises to be on par with the one that killed most of the non-avian
dinosaurs. This extinction event is triggering the beginning of a
new epoch for this planet – like all the great extinction events
that have preceded it. Each extinction event gives rise to a new
era; our particular extinction event is being given the name
Anthropocene – it is in our honor. For we, our species and the
actions of our species, we are the driving causal factor that is at
the base of this wave of planetary dying, which is going on right now.
I find this great wave of planetary dying; of species extinction
(which is occurring at a far higher rate than the historical average
over the past say ten million years)… I personally am far more
troubled and concerned by this, than I am by a regional group of
medieval psychopaths in some far away land.
For me it is the principal of correctly stack ranking actual real
threats to our future in an ordering that actually makes sense – in
a qualitative, real world, fact based manner.
What are the real threats to our future? To humanity’s potential to
achieve a transformational leap into becoming a multi-planetary,
solar system spanning resource based, micro-gravity space (La Grange
point) based industrial society!
If you want to stop ISIS, shine a bright light on Turkey, Saudi
Arabia/Kuwait/Gulf States, Israel and other regional actors who are
behind ISIS. Without these other actors (not so) covert support ISIS
would crumble.
-Chris
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 11:51 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
All well and good, but I am surmising that you underestimate the
vindictiveness from others, who see life differently than yourself.
For instance, the European epoch of imperialism, which we all know
about, is shameful look backwards for the Europeans. For the Islamic
expansions of the 7th century, the move into the Indian
subcontinent, the push into southeast asia, are considered a
glorious time for the Uma. It is considered a thing of great pride.
The re-establishment of the Caliphate, would get the community back
into the grace of Allah, and its return would be a sign from God
that He is smiling down, and is pleased by His people.
You and I don't agree with this point of view, but I respect that
this view is their "truth." I accept it as I must accept a natural
calamity like an earthquake of a plague. If you are asking whether
it will be ISIS puling the trigger on the Qufar? It might happen
that way, and they do sell oil, so they have finance. They also have
audacity, which sometimes wins the day. But I am not planning US
foreign policy or am a defense department analyst. I do know that if
one despises somebody intensely, enough, they will go for the jugular.
There are different ways to defend the country. One would be applied
green energy systems, at first for emergencies like power outages,
another, would be to yes, do the shale thing, but also consider
methane powered vehicles, and yes biogas powered vehicles and homes.
This could be a national program and worth paying for, and thus,
better insulate the US, or Australia, Japan, etc, from let us say,
the closure of the straight of Hormuz.
Remember, the question was originally posed about the strength of
ISIS, and I focused on the weakness of the current world leaders,
and so far, their weakness has empowered ISIS, and other actors in
the world.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:57 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
No I am objecting to the making of ISIS into the central existential
problem that must define our times; they are a largely regional
phenomenon (with a certain internet reach resulting from their use
of graphic brutality). The planet earth has far more serious
existential problems than ISIS.
ISIS is a side freak show – a freak show of extreme brutality for
sure, but a freak show never the less. If Saudi/Kuwaiti funding was
shut off the monster would quickly dry up and wither away. ISIS is
Iraq’s problem, it is Syria’s problem, it is Iran’s or the Kurd’s
problem perhaps, but it is not and never will amount to an
existential military threat against the West.
I do not see any good reason why our country should become even more
involved in this mess than it already is – having largely been
responsible for the creation of the conditions which led to the
evolution of these psychopath monsters in the first place. ISIS (nor
anything like it) did not exist under the Baathist regime of Saddam
Hussein lest we forget; the Baathist regime was an implacable enemy
of Islamic fundamentalism; it was a Stalinist regime in fact (a very
different animal). The US (in its infinite wisdom) utterly destroyed
the Baathist regime in a series of bloody expensive wars and a ten
year long occupation of Iraq; ISIS is the predictable blowback of
Abu Ghraib and the US occupation of Iraq during the first decade of
this millennium. Now, I am not extolling the Baathist regime as a
paradigm of humanism (though woman and Christians, to cite some
examples, had far more rights and opportunity under Saddam Hussein’s
Iraq than they do in the Iraqi “freedom” the US so kindly brought to
their land).
The US should focus more on taking care of our own country and let
other people sort out their own destinies. Let Iran handle ISIS (and
to a degree ISIS is a proxy war between the Gulf Arab regimes and
the Iranians); why should we bloody our hands in this mess?
ISIS is no existential threat to the US and if we stood out of the
way (or as we are to some extent to continue to provide discreet
logistical and air support) Iranian and Kurdish backed forces from
one side and Syrian/Hezbollah forces from the other side will keep
ISIS very well contained.
Those who seek to learn about the rise of ISIS need to understand
the roles played by these various regional actors prominently
including: Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Gulf states in
fomenting ISIS as a tool to destroy the Baathist Syrian regime – and
seen in the larger context of an arc of struggle between Saudi,
Turkish and Iranian influence broken down largely along sectarian
lines.
-Chris
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:53 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
I don't think this is Manicheanism, You are objecting to fact that
ISIS does bad things, or that people oppose the bad things that ISIS
does? The leadership of the US especially, view passivity on the US
part, as an unalloyed virtue. On the other hand, with the
president's involvement wit Iran (read the news tomorrow) may have
decided to adopt a "let em kill each other," policy in which Sunni's
and Shia, massacre each other. Perhaps with the thought that with
enough war and massacre's maybe a calm will then take place?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 9:48 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Who elected you dispenser of prizes, ignobal or otherwise…. net nanny?
As you make clear by your own subsequent words I can see you must be
a fellow sufferer of the Manichean delusion, speaking in those
exaggerated apocalyptic tongues you types favor.
Thanks, but no thanks… I don’t need, desire or see the fruit in your
peculiar kind of religion; mind set; world view… whatever you wish
to call it. It is not based on a rational analysis of actual
geopolitical strength, but rather appeals to irrational Manichean
idiocy and lurid anecdotal tales told over and over again.
This world of ours is enough of a tinder box already without the
added idiocy of war mongering nutters – like ISIS as well -- wanting
to ignite another crusade/jihad.
I hope this makes my opinion even clearer to you.
Just in case, in typical Manichean fashion you use my complete
rejection of your hyperbolic world view, as a rhetorical hammer to
try to shape me into some kind of sympathizer or something vaguely
treasonous sounding – as your fellow crusader spudboy has in fact
insinuated in my case on numerous previous occasions – let me – a
priori – make it clear that my current complete rejection of your
insane fallacy does not imply any kind of support or tolerance of
the medieval minded brutality of the murderous lunatics of ISIS.
Just so we are clear on this, and because this is a usual rhetorical
tactic that war junkies commonly use against those who publicly
oppose their agenda.
Now speaking directly to your facile and childish disparaging of the
term “psychological mind ghosts”. If you actually knew the mind –
instead of merely pontificating about it, which you seem to do a lot
of -- you would know that there is quite a bit of evidence that our
minds are inhabited by numerous zombie neural processes, of which we
remain consciously unaware; these are our mind ghosts; they are
ghosts in our minds. We – the conscious self-aware part of ourselves
at least -- are to a large degree informed and formed by these
dynamically evolving entities comprised of synchronized neural
firing networks. They can take dynamic movies of these neural firing
networks evolving as thoughts form and perception is perceived! If
we did not have any ghosts in our minds; would we have any minds at
all?
Those who think their self-aware minds are comprised by the
narrative voice in their heads alone, are suggestive of those who,
for so long believed the celestial bodies revolved around the earth.
If, in fact, you accept that by far most of who you are actually
occurs outside of the boundaries of your own self-aware narrative
(and narrator); then why on earth would you feel that “psychological
mind ghosts” was just an insult, worthy of your net nanny
interventionist response, awarding me the most Ignobal prize – so
kind of you to do that really.
More people die of bee stings… bathtub falls… and certainly far more
people die and become horribly wounded in traffic accidents than
people dying by this kind of terrorism; yet you seem to want to
raise it up on the altar of some bloody crusade around which we must
all align ourselves marching lemming like over the cliffs of
oblivion. Excuse me, but I am going to pass on that world view, and
I will continue to ridicule it as well; it is a world view most
richly deserving of ridicule.
Let us laugh together… for it is patently ridiculous that ISIS poses
an existential threat to the USA, or even to your own country
Australia. Unless you are living in Syria or Iraq, or somewhere that
is too close to the small region where ISIS has the logistical
ability to pose a threat then it is not a threat and to insist that
it must be our most existential cause around which we must all
rally… well that just reeks of fascism to me.
Yours truly,
-Chris
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of Kim Jones
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 5:40 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
On 12 Jul 2015, at 3:09 am, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
You suffer from raving psychological mind ghosts; carefully nurtured
paranoid Manichean delusions brought upon by the ingestion of too
much war propaganda.
"Psychological mind ghosts" - Lol.
I think with that you probably score the Ignobel Prize for
adjectival abuse. SB's thinking on this is entirely rational and
highly probable from where I am. Western leaders ARE all as weak as
piss. They are all screaming for someone to come along and rip their
bloody heads off with a blunt bread knife, yes. Icke is something of
a nutter, but he at least has the balls to face the music that no
one else does.
Kim
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:36 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Icke is an interesting, but paranoid character. If ISIS, or any
element from the Islamic World causes a 4th world war (The Cold War
was actually WW3), then it is not any member of the Uma's fault, but
instead the weakness, the cowardice, the irresolution, of 'so
called' Western leaders. Perfection with one's fellows humans is
fraught with disappointment, because people will always disappoint.
But, the leadership of the so-called West, is so bad that it invites
attack from ISIS or anyone else.As Bin Laden said, "People like the
stronger horse." Leaders here are so weak, that if ISIS attacked,
they might win. Who now knows?
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 1:36 am
Subject: Fwd: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Begin forwarded message:
ISIS The Start of World War III?
David Icke interview
Video link:
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?266299-ISIS-The-Start-of-World-War-III
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A los hombres fuertes les pasa lo que a los barriletes; se elevan
cuando es mayor el viento que se opone a su ascenso.
José Ingenieros (1877.1925)
*thermo*
http://www.mechpoet.net
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