On 24 Jun 2016, at 03:25, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 12:55 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I would say it would have to have SOMETHING physical as
we know it or it wouldn't be another physical universe as we know
it.
> So according to you, does every physical universe has to have
hadrons, electrons and photons, and 3 spatial dimensions?
No, according to me every physical universe must have something
physical in it or it wouldn't be a physical universe.
> What in your mind delineates the physical from the
mathematical?
"Mathematics" is the best language minds have for thinking about
the physical universe.
And "physical" is anything that is NOT nothing.
And "nothing" is anything that is infinite, unbounded,
and homogeneous in both space and time.
So if a Game of Life computation qualifies as a physical universe, I
am guessing so would other cellular automata systems would. Some
linear cellular automata systems are even Turing universal: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UniversalCellularAutomaton.html
When we envision (imagine) a GoL emulation, we interpret it as a
grid of cells with changing states, but an equally consistent view
would be to imagine the grid as a binary number, whose bits flip
from one step to another according to finite rules. For example, the
game tic-tac-toe (a.k.a. naughts and crosses) is often envisioned as
completing a line, or diagonal with X's or O's, but a mathematically
equivalent view of the game is the players complete for selecting
unique numbers from 1 to 9, such that the sum of their selected
numbers adds to 15 ( https://www.mathworks.com/moler/exm/chapters/tictactoe.pdf
).
All this is to say that a "physically existing GoL universe" is from
the inside of that world, no different (in any testable way) from a
recursive function operating on an integer. So can anyone truly
differentiate a "physically existing GoL universe" from a
"platonically existing recursive computation" when both are
equivalent and for all intents and purposes identical--sharing all
the same internal relations isomorphically?
If a GoL universe exists and contains a Turing machine executing the
universal dovetailer, no conscious entities within the programs
executed by the universal dovetailer could ever know their ultimate
substrate happens to be a GoL universe.
That would even have no sense, as here the GOL would only be a tool
for us to have some precise view of the UD. In fact we could not
distinguish the UD made by that GOL from the UD made by a GOL made by
a UD made by a Diophantine polynomial. Fortunately, the measure is
formalism independent. We need one, but anyone will do. Then it
happens that we all believe, in the relevant sense, in one of them,
when we decide to not take our kids at school when a teacher told them
that there are infinitely many primes.
Note that physics cannot been a priori Turing emulable, as it is given
by a first person limit on the FPI on the whole universal deployment
(entirely determined by a tiny part of the arithmetical reality). The
miracle here is that an infinite addition leads to subtraction of
probabilities, a bit like with Ramanujan sum. The explanation of this
is in the math of self-reference.
Bruno
Jason
>>Cells and particles are physical.
> Would you say it is a particle even when the particles have
only 1 bit of information associated with them "exists in this cell"
Yes I would and that's why you're not talking about nothing,
you're talking about something, you're talking about the physical.
You use plural words like "particles" and "them". So there is more
than one. So neither particles nor cells can be infinite, unbounded,
and homogeneous in both space and time. So it can't be nothing. So
it must be physical.
John K Clark
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