On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:07 AM, Bruce Kellett <bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On 2/06/2017 7:28 am, smitra wrote: >> >> On 01-06-2017 02:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> On 1/06/2017 4:43 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> Non-locality is not removed in MWI as you appear to believe. >>> >>>> For me the abandon of the collapse is the solution of the EPR "paradox", >>>> and Aspect experience is somehow the confirmation of our belonging to >>>> macrosuperposition. >>> >>> >>> The non-local (paradoxical) nature of EPR remains even without >>> collapse. As on the previous occasion we discussed this, you were >>> unable to demonstrate where the notion of 'collapse' is used in Bell's >>> theorem - all Bell requires is that measurements give results, and >>> that is what the whole of physics is based on: in MWI as well as in >>> any other interpretation. >>> >>> Bruce >> >> >> In the MWI there are only trivial common cause like effects. There is no >> non-locality in some mysterious sense like there is in the CI where somehow >> there is a non-local effect but you don;t have information transfer. The >> mistake most people make when arguing that the MWI doesn't resolve the >> problem is that they can't get their head around the fact that even when >> Alice and Bob meet and Alice has not yet communicated everything that's >> necessary to Bob, that the Alice that Bob sees has yet to collapse in the >> branch corresponding to whatever she is going to say (Bob's consciousness is >> thus located in many different branches of Alice, even if the atoms in his >> body will be in different states due to decoherence). > > > I think that either you or someone else said something like this when this > was last discussed. I have a couple of points to make: > > 1. This is not quantum mechanics, or the many worlds interpretation of QM. > It is your own idiosyncratic theory that has no bearing on the question of > non-locality in QM. > > 2. Even in its own terms, this theory is nothing more than an undisguised > appeal to magic. You want consciousness to be unrelated to the decohered > body. That conflicts with the overwhelming experimental evidence in favour > of the supervenience on consciousness on the physical brain
I don't see how such experimental evidence can be claimed to exist, given that there is no way to measure consciousness. In my opinion this results from equating intelligence and human experience with consciousness. Maybe that position is correct, but nobody can claim to know if this is the case. There is overwhelming evidence that the physical brain is a computer, capable of storing memories, detecting patterns, predicting the future and so on. It is also the case that human experience depends on these mechanisms. What there is no evidence for is what is conscious or not. For example, panpsychists hold that everything is conscious. I don't see how such a hypothesis can be falsified at the moment. Telmo. > -- they move in > lockstep, so if your body has decohered having obtained a particular > measurement result, all copies (if there be such) of this consciousness are > conscious of the same measurement result. By the identity of indiscernibles, > there is then only one body and one consciousness. That is what QM and MWI > tell you, any deviations are simple fantasy. > > Bruce > > > >> The apparent non-locality is then purely an artifact on making such >> assumptions about localization in branches when that's wrong to do. >> >> Saibal >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
