On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 10:50:35 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: > > On 21/11/2017 4:38 pm, agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote: > > On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >> >> On 12/11/2017 4:34 am, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> >> The title of this thread is about the consistency of Quantum Mechanics, >> but far more important than QM is the ability of ANY theory to be >> compatible with experimental results, and one of those experiments shows >> the violation of Bell's Inequality. And that violation tells us that for >> ANY theory to be successful at explaining how the world works AT LEAST one >> of the following properties of that theory must be untrue: >> >> 1) Determinism >> 2) Locality >> 3) Realism >> >> >> You have repeated this claim several times, John, but it is not strictly >> true. Maudlin summarizes it like this: >> >> "Early on, Bell's result was often reported as ruling out *determinism*, >> or *hidden variables*. Nowadays, it is sometimes reported as ruling out, >> or at least calling in question, *realism*. But these are all mistakes. >> What Bell's theorem, together with the experimental results, proves to be >> impossible is not determinism or hidden variables or realism, but *locality, >> *in a perfectly clear sense*. *What Bell proved, and what theoretical >> physics has not yet properly absorbed, is that the physical world itself is >> non-local." >> > > Which begs the question; operationally, what does non local mean? AG > > > It doesn't 'beg the question'! It might raise the question.... > > Non-local means that disturbing one particle of the singlet influences the > other, at a distance and instantaneously. Read Maudlin to find out more > about what these terms mean. > > Bruce >
There's an ambiguity in English as to what "beg the question" means. I meant it as you say. Does non locality mean the future influences the past as Clark alleged? Does it mean the non existence of local hidden variables? Will read Maudlin. AG > > >> This is from the article Stathis pointed to: Tim Maudlin, arxiv:1408.1826 >> He says the same thing in his book and numerous other articles where he >> spells this out in considerable detail. >> >> Bruce >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
