On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:38 PM, <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Due to the uncertainty principle, it's impossible to know the exact state > of any measuring device or any system being measured. >
Yes that's what the uncertainty principle says, the better you know an electron's position the worse you know its velocity, but it is not a law of logic, Heisenberg was assuming that Quantum Mechanics is correct and that we know all the forces that are acting on the electron. Bell did something much more general, Bell didn't assume Quantum Mechanics was correct and in fact his original paper had no Quantum Mechanics in it, just logic and high school mathematics. Bell was not talking about any specific theory but instead asked the question "If the inequality is violated what general properties must ANY theory that successfully explains the experimental results have to have and what properties must it not have?". The answer that Bell found was that it couldn't be deterministic, local and realistic; AT LEAST one of those 3 things would have to go. When Bell wrote the paper he didn't even know if the inequality was violated or not because the experiment was difficult and had not been done yet. > > > This means that no theory of micro reality can be deterministic or > realistic, > No , we might someday get a theory that is both deterministic and realistic , but Bell tells us it would have to invoke non-local forces. And then the Leggett–Garg inequality was developed and a few years later it was found experimentally that it is violated too, and that places further restraints on the nature of those non-local forces; not only must their strength be undiminished by distance and operate faster than light but they must also be abel to move against the arrow of time, that is to say the future must be able to effect the past. Neither distance in space nor distance in time (in either direction) lessen the ability of these odd non-local forces to effect things. > > > and this shows (without appealing to Bell experiment results) that hidden > variables cannot exist to know such states if one agrees that the UP is > operating. > > So it's not that God plays dice with the universe; rather, it's impossible *in > principle* to predict the outcome of any micro experiment. > If things are realistic then an unmeasured electron is either spin up or spin down, it doesn't matter if we know what it is the important thing is that God knows, and He knows its spinning in one and only one way. But since things are realistic then even God can't determine what the electron will do next with 100% certainty unless He uses one of those very very weird non-local forces. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
