On 4/18/2019 3:17 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
What does "self model" even mean ? Notice that any material attempt to
implement "self model" leads to infinite regress.
No. A "model" is not a complete description, it's a representation of
some specific aspects. Your "self-reference" cannot refer to everything
about yourself...which according to you is a stream of consciousness.
Brent
Because let's say that a machine has the parts A B C. To have a "self
model" would mean to have another part (A B C) which would contain the
"self model". But this would be an extra part of the "self" which
would be needed to be included in the "self model" in order to
actually have a "self model", so you would need another part (A B C (A
B C)). But then again you would need to include this part as well in
the "self model". So you will get to infinite regress. Therefore, you
need a special kind of entity to obtained the desired effect without
getting into infinite regress. And that's precisely why the
self-reference that I'm talking about in the book is unformalizable.
And as you say, being unformalizable, allows for bootstrapping
consciousness into existence. You cannot simulate self-reference just
by playing around with atoms. Self-reference just is. It just is the
source of the entire existence. Is not up to anyone to simulate the
source of existence. You can never obtain the properties of
consciousness (meaning, purpose, free will, memory, intelligence,
learning, acting, etc.) just by playing around with a bunch of atoms.
All these properties of consciousness are having their source in the
unformalizable self-reference.
On Thursday, 18 April 2019 04:00:31 UTC+3, Russell Standish wrote:
each consciousness bootstraps its own
meaning from self-reference. Unless the mars rover has a self
model in
its code (and I don't think it was constructed that way), then I
would
extremely doubt it has any sort of consciousness.
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