>> On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:04:31 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:
>>>
>>> Consciousness. Red is red.
>>>
>>> On Friday, 26 April 2019 10:03:26 UTC+3, cloud...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What specific ontological entity or entities of any science in 2019
>>>> does one claim as* final* - i.e., *that *ontology is the "true" one?
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 11:25:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 26 Apr 2019, at 10:09, cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote:
>
> That is a good point.
>
> And that is the basic framework of Strawsonian panpsychism:
>
> *Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery. It’s Matter.*
> -
> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/opinion/consciousness-isnt-a-mystery-its-matter.html
>
>
>
> Yes, the believer in Ontological Matter can get that crazy. When they
> don’t eliminate consciousness, they identify it with matter, but then I
> have no more any idea what they mean by consciousness, nor matter. It like
> saying that apple are oranges, or that dogs are cats, or that music are
> black spot.
>
> To be sure, I have not read the text in the link, but I doubt it could
> clarify anything like that. Matter and consciousness are typically very
> different things. Consciousness is ascribed to person, matter is ascribed
> to their (local) bodies. Both exist phenomenologically, with digital
> mechanism, but one is far more general than the other, and once
> (consciousness) is responsible from creating, in some sense, the other
> (matter).
>
> Consciousness needs only small numbers, matter needs the full invariance
> of consciousness on all “similar enough” computations, and use infinities
> (phenomenologically, as the ontology has not infinities). Matter obeys to
> the laws of physics, but consciousness obeys to the laws of mind (the laws
> of Boole and the laws of Boolos, as I sum up sometimes, that is classical
> logic + the laws of self-reference).
>
> Bruno
>
Matter - in the panpsychist view - obeys "the laws of physics", but those
"laws" are are an incomplete theory of matter.
There is a physical and psychical aspect to any complete theory of matter -
in the panpsychist view.
There may be an immaterialist science, and the pro-"matter" people may have
some 'splainin' to do, but in the panpsychist context, matter is both
physical and psychical.
@philipthrift <https://twitter.com/philipthrift>
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