On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 11:57 AM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thursday, August 8, 2019, Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:50 AM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> A multitude of classical computational traces can be found in a quantum >>>> computation. You point out this multitude of computation traces can be >>>> viewed as one state of a larger space. Viewing it this way, however, >>>> doesn't eliminate the multitude of the classical computational traces. >>>> >>> >>> But viewing it in terms of "multiple classical computational traces" >>> does not prove that there are multiple parallel worlds. You can change the >>> basis vectors, or the clustering properties of the components, to any >>> extent that you like. That does not change the fact that there is only one >>> overall state, in one world, and no parallel worlds anywhere. >>> >> >> Not immediately, the logic to get to many worlds is as follows: >> >> >> 1. There are multiple classical computational traces in the quantum >> computer. >> > > The operation might be representable in this way. But that does not mean > that this is what actually happens. Description in a different base leads > to a different perspective. > You say this is merely a way of representing what is happening (and implying what I suppose to be happening is not really real), but then this line of reasoning fails to give any account of how Shor's algorithm factors the 1000 bit semi-prime. > > >> 2. If the classical computational traces are computations of conscious >> minds, there are multiple conscious minds and points of views. >> > > Consciousness requires decoherent interaction with an environment, and > there is no decoherence within the QC. > Then you get either (a) violations of Church-Turing or (b) philosophical zombies. Which do you suppose it is? > > >> 3. The quantum computer maintains the superposition of the multiple >> computational traces by virtue of being isolated from the environment. >> > > So there cannot be conscious points of view within it. > According to what theory of mind? > > >> 4. Our own minds are isolated from the rest of the environment for some >> definition of the environment (e.g. a sphere with a 200 light year radius >> centered on Earth). >> > > The immediate environment even within our own skulls is sufficient to > decohere anything quantum. > Dechorence is relative. Nothing in your brain is interacting with anything 200 light years away (at least not for 200 years). > > >> 5. From the perspective of a scientist outside this sphere, we can be >> viewed as a superposition of many possible states. >> > > There is no such perspective, because if he is outside the future light > cone he can get no information about the state at the centre. If he > interacts with it, he decoheres it and it is just another "relative state" > (single world). > I am speaking of the time between your birth and the time he interacts with your state. During this time your brain is in a superposition of many possible states (from his vantage point). When he interacts with it, 200 years from now, he becomes part of the superposition (maintained for the entity 400 light years away). > > 6. Hence we experience "many worlds" in the sense that the wave function >> for the state of the earth becomes a superposition of huge number of >> possibilities. (From the POV) of the scientist outside the sphere. >> > > There is no such perspective. Even if there were, the "outside" observer > would not see a superposition, because there are no internal multiple > worlds -- there is only the one world with one result from the quantum > computation. > > This is just the "Wigner's friend" argument. And that has been shown many > times not to imply many worlds, or coherent superpositions of decohered > objects. > You said before decoherence results when a system interacts with it's environment. Well here the system of earth won't react with its external environment for 200 years. It is isolated in the same way the qubits are in the quantum computer. So what is the difference? Why does the superposition persist in the quantum computer but not in the Earth isolated from points in space 200 light year away? Can you reference a rule or equation in quantum mechanics that suggests an error in this reasoning? Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUi-49fNGdgQQcFS67U%3DrPbA3n%2BWKLPWhOc1DKmceJ387g%40mail.gmail.com.
