On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 6:01:41 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 18 Sep 2019, at 21:15, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 3:01:23 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:33 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:08:16 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM 
>>>>>>>> and Relativity, people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result 
>>>>>>>> finds 
>>>>>>>> its justification among true believers.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And in this context "patently absurd" means odd, not logically 
>>>>>>> contradictory not paradoxical not contrary to experimental results, 
>>>>>>> just 
>>>>>>> odd. But as far as we know there is no law that says nature can't 
>>>>>>> behave in 
>>>>>>> ways that humans find odd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many "odd" results are now mainstream, but MWI is bridge too far, way 
>>>>>> too far IMO. Why don't you just accept that the wf is simply irrelevant 
>>>>>> after the measurement occurs like in the horserace example?. Here, 
>>>>>> there's 
>>>>>> no collapse, no many worlds, no need to explain where the energy comes 
>>>>>> from 
>>>>>> which defines these worlds, and so forth? AG
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Except that horses and horse races do not interfere (except in 
>>>>> Australia, where several jockeys and trainers have recently been 
>>>>> suspended 
>>>>> for unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know. I was just being illustrative. But note that Carroll says much 
>>>> the same thing when he says worlds are created when you make a left or 
>>>> right turn, or flip a coin (or some equivalent analogy). AG 
>>>>
>>>
>>> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. 
>>> Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why 
>>> can't one suppose that the two terms in the superposition, head and tail, 
>>> manifest quantum interference? AG 
>>>
>>
>> Why can't one observe a superposition of a live cat and a dead cat? The 
>> problem is decoherence, and coin tosses are totally decohered -- no quantum 
>> superpositions left. So one is reduced to standard classical ignorance 
>> probability .
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> Yes, you're getting to the core of the issue, and there's more here then 
> (than?) meets the eye, at least mine. It seems that quantum superpositions 
> depend on isolation and are destroyed by entanglements,
>
>
> How could ever something destroyed an entanglement? 
>

*I think any entanglement can be destroyed, or undone, by isolating a 
system. AG *

>
> On the contrary, the entailment with an observer will just put the 
> observer in a superposition state himself, and then assuming mechanism, you 
> get the “illusion” of a collapse, without any need of collapse.
>
> Everett “many-worlds” is just the rather natural (for monist at least) 
> idea that a physicist obeys to the laws of physics.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> but exactly why that's the case remains obscure. And these entanglements 
> also connect the micro to the macro. AG
>
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