On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 6:01:41 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Sep 2019, at 21:15, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 3:01:23 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:33 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:08:16 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM >>>>>>>> and Relativity, people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result >>>>>>>> finds >>>>>>>> its justification among true believers.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in this context "patently absurd" means odd, not logically >>>>>>> contradictory not paradoxical not contrary to experimental results, >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> odd. But as far as we know there is no law that says nature can't >>>>>>> behave in >>>>>>> ways that humans find odd. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Many "odd" results are now mainstream, but MWI is bridge too far, way >>>>>> too far IMO. Why don't you just accept that the wf is simply irrelevant >>>>>> after the measurement occurs like in the horserace example?. Here, >>>>>> there's >>>>>> no collapse, no many worlds, no need to explain where the energy comes >>>>>> from >>>>>> which defines these worlds, and so forth? AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except that horses and horse races do not interfere (except in >>>>> Australia, where several jockeys and trainers have recently been >>>>> suspended >>>>> for unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!) >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>> >>>> I know. I was just being illustrative. But note that Carroll says much >>>> the same thing when he says worlds are created when you make a left or >>>> right turn, or flip a coin (or some equivalent analogy). AG >>>> >>> >>> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. >>> Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why >>> can't one suppose that the two terms in the superposition, head and tail, >>> manifest quantum interference? AG >>> >> >> Why can't one observe a superposition of a live cat and a dead cat? The >> problem is decoherence, and coin tosses are totally decohered -- no quantum >> superpositions left. So one is reduced to standard classical ignorance >> probability . >> >> Bruce >> > > Yes, you're getting to the core of the issue, and there's more here then > (than?) meets the eye, at least mine. It seems that quantum superpositions > depend on isolation and are destroyed by entanglements, > > > How could ever something destroyed an entanglement? >
*I think any entanglement can be destroyed, or undone, by isolating a system. AG * > > On the contrary, the entailment with an observer will just put the > observer in a superposition state himself, and then assuming mechanism, you > get the “illusion” of a collapse, without any need of collapse. > > Everett “many-worlds” is just the rather natural (for monist at least) > idea that a physicist obeys to the laws of physics. > > Bruno > > > > but exactly why that's the case remains obscure. And these entanglements > also connect the micro to the macro. AG > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everyth...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c7e0194c-57fd-4eeb-8d17-d37f33936918%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c7e0194c-57fd-4eeb-8d17-d37f33936918%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/257d1ad3-e7d4-4a18-a31e-82a9b7266777%40googlegroups.com.
