On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 4:50:34 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 4:14:43 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
On 23 Sep 2019, at 05:24, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 7:39:50 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 8:15 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/22/2019 3:46 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>>> > every conceivable pattern that is possible can happen and would happen
>>>>
>>>> No. That is NOT the theory. The theory is that everything
>>>> nomologically consistent with the initial conditions may happen.
>>>> "Conceviable" is having a flat Earth and flying pigs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I qualified it with "that is possible", I grant that "conceivable"
>>> becomes superfluous with the "possible" constraint. Anyway, here is what
>>> Guth writes:
>>>
>>> “This process will repeat itself literally forever, producing a kind of
>>> a fractal structure to the universe, resulting in an infinite number of the
>>> local universes […] Of course this fractal structure is entirely on
>>> distance scales much too large to be observed, so we cannot expect
>>> astronomers to see it. Nonetheless, one does have to think about the
>>> fractal structure if one wants to understand the very large scale structure
>>> of the spacetime produced by inflation. Most important of all is the simple
>>> statement that once inflation happens, it produces not just one universe,
>>> but an infinite number of universes.” He concludes, “In an eternally
>>> inflating universe, anything that can happen will happen; in fact, it will
>>> happen an infinite number of times.”
>>>
>>> -- Alan Gutth, "Eternal inflation and its implications" (
>>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/0702178.pdf )
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>
>> Unless Guth can plausbily argue why eternal inflation must occur, the
>> claim goes far behind mere speculation since it's already beyond our
>> ability to observe. AG
>>
>>
>> Whatever is observable is dream-able, and so “observation” is not a good
>> criterion for deciding the ontology.
>>
>
> You can't prove that arithmetic has a Platonic reality and lies at the
> core of everything we perceive and call the external world. OTOH, it's
> child's play
> to show that arithmetic arises immediately from observations of the
> externally appearing world. AG
>
You can't prove that arithmetic has a Platonic reality; the most you can do
is assume it. You do so to solve the mind-body problem, and the key to your
alleged solution is computability. I grant that if you wait long enough, a
monkey typing at random can produce the complete works of William
Shakespeare. But how could it produce Newton's law of gravitation? In your
maze of computations, what could you identify as Newton's law of
gravitation? Herein lies the rub; underneath the term "computability" is an
undefined maze of unrelated computations, none of which, unlike
Shakespeare, have a definable meaning. AG
>
>> That is the older anti-physicalist argument, already in Plato, and well
>> before.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
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