On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell <
>> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: 
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one 
>>>> on the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an 
>>>> excellent Google talk about it on Friday so maybe his critics will at 
>>>> least watch that; after all even an abbreviated Cliff Notes knowledge of a 
>>>> book is better than no knowledge at all.
>>>>
>>>> Sean Carroll's Google talk about his new book "Something Deeply Hidden" 
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6FR08VylO4&t=1314s>
>>>>
>>>> John K Clark
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have read Carroll and Sebens' paper on this, which is more rigorous 
>>> and less qualitative. I honestly do not have a yay or nay opinion on this. 
>>> It is something to store away in the mental toolbox. Quantum 
>>> interpretations are to my thinking unprovable theoretically and not 
>>> falsifiable empirically. 
>>>
>>
>>
>> I watched a little of Sean's talk at Google. It is a very slick marketing 
>> exercise -- reminded me of a con man, or a snake oil salesman. Too slick by 
>> half.
>>
>>
>> What do you think he's selling?  I think Carroll is a good speaker, a 
>> good popularizer, and a nice guy.  I feel fortunate to have him 
>> representing physics to the public.  He is not evangelizing for some 
>> particular interpretation and he recognizes that there are alternative 
>> interpretations of QM even though he favors MWI.
>>
>> Also, he's the only scientist who debated William Lane Craig and won by 
>> every measure.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>
> Sean Carroll reminds me more of Alvin Plantinga 
>
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga
>
> who can take math and pull out God.
>
> Carroll makes* the big mistake* of a number of physics "popularizers" 
> today. He takes the mathematical language of a physical theory (or one 
> version* of that theory, as there are multiple formulations of quantum 
> theory) and pulls a physical ontology out of his math.
>
>
> That's why it's called an "interpretation".  Every physical theory has an 
> ontology that goes with it's mathematics, otherwise you don't know how to 
> apply the mathematics.  That MWI entails other, unobservable "worlds" is 
> neither a bug or a feature, it's just one answer to the measurement 
> problem.  If you have a better answer, feel free to state it.
>
>
>
> The math is not the territory.
>
>
> * The Schrödinger equation is not the only way to study quantum mechanical 
> systems and make predictions. The other formulations of quantum mechanics 
> include matrix mechanics <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_mechanics>, 
> introduced by Werner Heisenberg 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg>, and the path integral 
> formulation <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_integral_formulation>, 
> developed chiefly by Richard Feynman 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman>. Paul Dirac 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dirac> incorporated matrix mechanics 
> and the Schrödinger equation into a single formulation.
>
> The Schrödinger equation provides a way to calculate the wave function of 
> a system and how it changes dynamically in time. However, the Schrödinger 
> equation does not directly say *what**, exactly, the wave function is*. 
> Interpretations 
> of quantum mechanics 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics> address 
> questions such as what the relation is between the wave function, the 
> underlying reality, and the results of experimental measurements.
>
>
> Did you write that, or are you quoting without attribution?  Anyway it's 
> common knowledge on this list.
>
> Brent
>



That's from Wikipedia again (same quote from the Schrödinger equation 
article posted several times before). That " it's common knowledge on this 
list" doesn't appear that way at all, where an undisputed catechism is 
assumed on what is real (QM-wise).

I just don't see how Many Worlds ontology tells us "how to apply the 
mathematics": We don't observe a bunch of worlds, so how can it be applied?

Path-integral methods are already used extensively in computational quantum 
mechanics CQM) and applied in materials science and other application 
areas. So we know they are useful. 

Where are the many-world methods used in CQM.

@philpthift   

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