> On 7 Dec 2019, at 01:12, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:05 AM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > > In the duplicating machine case even after it's all over it's not at all > > clear who has won because I hear 2 equally loud and equally valid voices > > demanding that they deserve to receive the title "you”. > > > That is right, and it is nice to listen to them both, > > I have,
I doubt this, as both assess seeing only one city, without remembering any clue capable of determining which one before the duplication. > > > as you should (given the definition of first person), > > Given the definition and given the circumstances there are now 2 first > persons, That is right. > and there is nothing indeterminate about that, it's a precise statement and > was correctly predicted to happen yesterday in Helsinki. Yes. It is simply part of the protocol, but as both lives one city, it is as easy to understand that they could not have been able to say which one in advance. > > > and when you listen to each of them, you realise that they know perfectly > > who they are. > > Yes, one knows they are the Washington Man and one knows he is the Moscow > Man. Sure, but the key point here is that both known that could not have predict which one they are seeing NOW, before the duplication occurred some moments before. > > > The guy in W says “I find myself clearly in W, and could not have guessed > > this in H”, > > Nonsense. Yesterday in H anybody could have predicted that the man who saw W > would become the W man, Sure, but yesterday, the man in H could not have guessed that he would, here and now, be the one seeing W. I know, assuming QM, that if I look to the Schroedinger cat, I will both see in dead, and alive, but I know that none of the superposed observer will see the cat being simultaneously dead and alive. That is why it looks like if a collapse occurred. > I don't understand what else somebody should have said yesterday in H. There is about 1/2 chance I will see M, and 1/2 chance I will see W. > > > and the guy in M says "“I find myself clearly in M, and could not have > > guessed this in H”. > > This? In the above "I" is clear, it is the man who saw M, but if "this" in > the above does not mean the man who sees M will become the M Man (which is > easily predictable) then "this" can not be guessed at because nobody knows > what the hell they're suposed to be guessing about. The execution of seing this or that city. > And atop this ridiculous foundation you have built a huge tower reaching > toward the ethereal heights. > > And you wonder why I stopped reading your "proof"! > > > both confirms that they got “THE” experience. > > Then yesterday in Helsinki it was a ridiculous question to ask "what one and > only one will get THE experience?", it's so ridiculous it wasn't a question > at all, it was just gibberish. It follow logically from the definition of the first person given. You are the only one I ever met having a problem with this (I mean: lasting so long). Bruno > > > you can no more invoke a god [...] > > And at this point I say goodnight because I know from experience that after > you invoke that particularly ridiculous word (or start babbling about ancient > Greeks) nothing intelligent ever follows. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv36eu9Edc%2BTNEhY_P1eq89riJb_mSBSZgF_asCEBwq8UA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv36eu9Edc%2BTNEhY_P1eq89riJb_mSBSZgF_asCEBwq8UA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7CA1B01F-BCE6-4980-9F2D-CB4762CB044D%40ulb.ac.be.
