I what agree that engineering is both an art and a science! No less than Enrico Fermi sawing apart blocks of carbon for the first known nuclear reactor in the basement of a sports arena handball I believe it was, to set up that first reactor. University of Chicago and I think it was a squash court. Beyond this when scientists go for emotionalism which is sometimes a necessity to sell an idea, it is still no better or worse seemingly, that anybody else doing it whether they're a president with orange hair, or a surf from the hinterlands of the US, or a car salesman in the EU. Since scientists are people of letters, talented people, it kind of behooves them to come up with rational workable solutions and not just complain. I can complain but coming up with rational solutions is a chancy thing for me although I sometimes still try!
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: On 22 Jan 2021, at 20:42, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: My point is that firstly, there are divergences in what scientists write from their own considered opinions on very tangible issues, that not even peer review corrects. Secondly, scientists are not always such rational actors, especially when their thinking becomes ideological, hence, my examples provided. You're caught up in the emotions of the day, go for group loyalty, go for enemies lists, just as the rest of us serfs in the hinterlands. So? So, we heed the words of experts, as sacrosanct, at our (plebians) own risk, when ignoring that scientists, too, are subject to human flaws. When scientists assert infalability, it's a bad move and that their opinions are not unchallengeable. Scientsts opinions are always challengeable. That is what science is all about, going from doubt to are doubts. But then we have decision to make, in some short time, due to urgency, and in that case we can only hope that the politicians heard the majority of scientists, even if in some case the majority can be wrong (slightly or wrongly). In case of such doubt, the more cautiousnous rule have to be applied. You can’t really compare this with QAnon, which is an organisation which deliberately lie in all direction, or exaggerated some truth, or are correct but with the wrong target, and does not change it despite new evidences. Applied science is not a science, but an art. It is almost easy to see where are those hiding doubts, which should not blister too, and those who propose theories, but are willing to abandon them. It is just much more difficult in urgent situation. Bruno On Friday, January 22, 2021 Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> wrote: Again, what in the hell does this have to do with anything? You go from some nonsense about nuclear winter to falsehoods about covid. You are clearly incapable to coherent thinking. LC On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 11:07:45 PM UTC-6 [email protected] wrote: Allow me to be brief. MIT physicists went along with the soviets in promoting their propaganda. Like anyone should care if it freezes, post nuclear holocaust! Secondly, the climatologists forecast models have been inaccurate, as it affects the lands, and how people live, so far. What kinds of energy gets produced is a critical feature for human survival, and less so for the quantum realm. Last, the experts for Covid outcomes have proven horrible, probably due to the complexity of the plague. On Thursday, January 21, 2021 Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> wrote: So much of what you write has little to do with anything of relevance. You range from Reagan nuclear build up in the 1980 to climate change to covid vaccine. it is all a jumble. LC On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 8:26:17 PM UTC-6 [email protected] wrote: Your promotion, is seemingly that scientists cannot let their emotions prevail in pursuit of studies. Yet, in the 20th century, by evidence and policy the Eugenicists and the Lysenkoist are proven example of emotion and group loyalty (to scientists, science societies), thwarting honest study and peer review. In the 80's we had the nuclear winter scare by Carl Sagan and the MIT physicists, siding with the Soviet propaganda (not that Nuke Winter isn't accurate, just relevant to human survival), after a nuke war, because of the effectiveness of the diminished survival rate from just fire and radiation. Meaning, you can't kill me twice, so yeah, our Pershing Missiles are going in NATO to match your SS 18's and 20's, sorry Mister Brezhnev, tear down the wall. In Britain when first analyzed, the idea there was to push herd immunity but that seemed specious now. As far as the efficaciousness of lockdowns, Conservative Florida has (in real life) done immensely better survival-wise, than Liberal NY, CA, etc. It doesn't appear ideological, merely wiser. Climate change? Well... 1. it's too late! https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75481-z 2. Or this? We'll work on it? https://news.yale.edu/2020/12/08/yale-puts-its-might-behind-solutions-planet-need The former, I suspect that (perhaps wrongly) that there is a venal mindset to the climatologists, thinking bigger paychecks for being bureaucrats, and secondly, making those nasty peasants squeal! My point is that we need to have an at-the-ready replacement for fracking (solar + batteries improved, wind power islands at sea) before we ban the frack. Otherwise, this seems like it will result in fast rising prices, dwindling supplies, rolling blackouts (gas turbines = 38% of US electricity) and it causing inflation and recession. The funding of Operation Warp-Speed by your arch nemesis, has gotten the vaccines out--not fast enough I admit. Maybe Kamala-Joe would also do a great job with funding and pushing, we shall soon find out, eh? For myself, I have long-sided with humorist P.J. O'Rourke, who once spake, "I'm an American, I want problems solved with technology, not government." Worshipping the scientist as someone not only with talent (great neuromorphic profile for maths and pattern recognition) and ability, seems a bad move for us Plebes? To wit: Papal Infallibility doesn't even work (ever) for the Popes. "It's settled science! snarl!" -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> To: Everything List <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Jan 19, 2021 6:06 am Subject: Re: FW: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg I disagree. The scientific response to the covid pandemic has been amazing. A year ago nothing was known about this virus and within a year vaccines are being distributed. That is a very remarkable development, far quicker than the development of vaccines for other diseases. In many ways it rivals the speed with which the Manhattan project developed the atomic bomb. I suspect the reason you and Philip call universities autocracies is because they tend to fail out people like you. My contact with what Philip presents as science informs me he is completely delusional. Universities, and by extension editors of scientific journals are gatekeepers. The process is meant to provide tests for the scientific or intellectual adequacy of publications. This does not guarantee what is published is correct, but that is later decided by others who try to repeat experiments or work on reported developments. If these do not lead to further results the scientific claim becomes a dead end. Universities provide tests students must pass to earn degrees, and further on requirements to hold chairs at a department. It is not always fair, and a very competent scientists who spends a year working down a blind ally may find that even if they abandon that and admit error that they are completely out of the game. However, it keeps people who are completely incompetent out. LC On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 2:45:25 AM UTC-6 [email protected] wrote: Yeah Phillip, you cited real world examples of academic autocracy, and that autocracy is on the public dime, via student loans. STEM is absolutely necessary for human survival, yet, the ability to think clearly is not to be undervalued, when even the claims by scientists go awry and get the human species nowhere. Science expertise did badly with Covid, with attaining fusion, have up till now been slow with getting medical achievements, etc. I can sum it up with saying, nice smart phones aren't just compensation for not beating diseases. Trillions have been spent over say, 40 years of basic research, so I ask cynically, where's out gear? I will still read science news every day, because, Compulsion. On Monday, January 18, 2021 Philip Benjamin <[email protected]> wrote: [email protected] Subject: RE: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> Sunday, January 17, 2021 1:23 AM [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg [Philip Benjamin] I agree with the post that “Universities are the autocratic kings of censorship and repression”. I have given only seven instances among thousands!! Alost everyday they are EXPELLING or ostracizing somebody who happened to be truthful but have findings in disagreement with their “fixations”. Fanatic fixations to intangible un-evidential ideas and ideologies cause zealotry and bigotry. This is a psychological disorder that may eventually lead to personality disorder. In the Augustinian Western context, especially in the backdrop of the American “Two Great Awakenings” it is a very complex pagan [Pan-Gaia-n = earthling] manifestation of un-awakened, kundalini/reptilian consciousness. The one and ONLY remedy for that malady is an Augustinian Awakening in the academia and the media (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine). Those who have witnessed “spirit possessions” first hand attest that many of the body-languages (especially the quizzical eye movements) of the members of the Western Acade-Media Pagans (WAMP) correspond fully with symptoms of “spirit possessions”!!!!! It has become a common cultural pattern. Too bad. Too sad. Evidentialist Philip Benjamin CC. Rep. Liz Cheney Universities are the autocratic kings of censorship and repression. It is no mistake that the most tyrannical of presidents Wilson and Obama arrived from the realm of professorship. I would add FDR and his internment camps, but he did free more peeps, than he imprisoned to say the least, so good on him. So what to do? My part is easy! Wait for errors on the side of the ruling class, that affects the middle class, and when enough uncorrected problems pile up, people, naturally will react. Repression from social media and the banks will be one thing that initiates a back-reaction (right outta optical physics). If the Dems do well with economic recovery, then it will be sunny skies for them. Once Kamala gets in gear, we will see what her leadership takes us? On Saturday, January 16, 2021 Philip Benjamin <[email protected]> wrote: [John K Clark] “No universities are doing any censoring either and for exactly the same reason, although I do think threatening to expel students for what they say is a very unproductive thing to do” [Philip Benjamin] There are hundreds if not thousands of instances to the contrary. Some are listed below. That is why I call these Universities WAMP—Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism). 1. https://www.thefire.org/10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2020/ 2. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/07/24/scientist-alleges-csun-fired-him-for-discovery-of-soft-tissue-on-dinosaur-fossil/ LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) — Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university. 3. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19kentucky.html Astronomer Sues the University of Kentucky, Claiming His Faith Cost Him a Job 4. https://www.christianpost.com/news/professor-fired-after-speech-opposing-puberty-blocking-drugs-sues-university.html A Psychiatry Professor fired after speech opposing puberty-blocking drugs sues university 5. https://mynewsla.com/crime/2021/01/11/chapman-professor-who-supports-trump-resists-calls-for-ouster/ A Chapman University law professor who has come under fire for his election fraud claims and participation in a rally led by President Donald Trump just before the insurrection at the Capitol fought back Monday against critics who are calling for his ouster from the university 6. http://www.theevolutioncrisis.org.uk/testimony5.php 7. https://www.amazon.com/Expelled-Intelligence-Allowed-Ben-Stein/dp/B001BYLFFS Big science has expelled smart new ideas from the classroom ... What they forgot is that every generation has its Rebel! That rebel, Ben Stein (Ferris Bueller’s Day Off) travels the world on his quest, and learns an awe-inspiring truth … that educators and scientists are being ridiculed, denied tenure and even fired – for the crime of merely believing that there might be evidence of design in nature, and that perhaps life is not just the result of accidental, random chance. To which Ben Says: Enough! And then gets busy. NOBODY messes with Ben. Philip Benjamin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB47043DD7F471FBB08602C1D7A8A40%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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