Re: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 4/1/2021 2:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 1 Apr 2021, at 00:08, Philip Benjamin <medinucl...@hotmail.com 
<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

[*Bruno Marchal*]

I think Trump is a symptom, not a cause

*[Philip Benjamin]*

Symptom of what? What exactly are the reasons why he is so hated? 
Personal? Official?



It is not a question of hate. It is more fear in front of 
incompetence, and lies, and a behaviour which is hardly acceptable, 
even for a four years old. When he promised to show his taxes, I got 
the feeling he was a liar, as it is not the type of thing you promise, 
you just do it.
Then Helsinki. Even if you hate the FBI and the CIA, you don’t 
publicly attacks your own camp virus an hostile country.
Then you can read the Muller’s report. Obama would have done 1/100 of 
what Trump did, and he would have been impeached right away.
Then some answer like this “I don’t know what is QAnon, but I heard 
they love me so they are right”, or about the proud boys “stand by, 
stand up …”.

Trump is to be feared, and even more so when it seems a whole party is 
in deny of reality, and behaves like having some paranoïa. They have 
forget the difference between political opponent and enemy.

Or just his “I love Kim-Young-Un”. That is quite enough to fear him, 
in the bones…

The sad mystery is how could anyone vote for Trump (except by being 
criminal or in a rotten corporations, like NRA, of Big Pharma).

I think the core of his support comes from voters who simply want to 
poke the eye of whom they see as rotten: Politicians who pander to 
minorities. Elitist bureaucrats and professors who tell them they are 
not superior persons and they must change their life style and values to 
save the planet.  Socialist who want to impose political correctness.


The sad thing is that Trump has shown that even in America, the worst 
kind of cult of personality can arise. Trump is not the big danger, 
here. It is his enablers, like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, and 
many others that Trump encapsulated somehow. They do not hide their 
hate/fear of democracy. The voter suppression in may state illustrates 
this again, and is very dangerous for the future.

Right. Trump has simply revealed and amplified a corruption within the 
body politic.  People who are relatively ignorant and intolerant, but 
see themselves as a chosen race...white, male Christian fundamentalists.

Brent

Bruno




*From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> 
<everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bruno Marchal
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 10:47 AM
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: Q Anon is the tip of the iceberg

    On 25 Feb 2021, at 13:03, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net
    <mailto:te...@telmomenezes.net>> wrote:

    Am Do, 25. Feb 2021, um 10:55, schrieb Bruno Marchal:

            On 24 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Telmo Menezes
            <te...@telmomenezes.net <mailto:te...@telmomenezes.net>>
            wrote:

            As an outside observer, I can't help but notice the
            following pattern in American politics: every
            presidential election is now seen as a
            civilization-threatening event, where each side believes
            that the other side is literally pure evil in its
            crystalized form, and that if they win, life as we know
            it will be over. We have now been through several
            iterations of this, and the reality is that nothing ever
            seems to happen, one way or the other.

        I think that before Trump, most Dems and Rep saw themselves
        as adversary, but not as enemy. Only with Trump, the
        adversary has become a scapegoat, an enemy, the responsible
        of all wrongs. Trump does not seem to be able to dialog, not
        even with its close accomplices. Trump is the worst enemy of
        … Trump. I think that his case is close to being pathological.

    I agree, but I think Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

Certainly. But Trump is a sort of extreme symptom. Almost a 
caricature. But you are right, and this is exemplified by the fact 
that it keeps, apparently, his seduction power on the Republicans, 
even after those last month where he showed how much a bad looser he 
can be.



    There is also Boris Johnson, who is Britain's Trump, Bolsonaro,
    who is Brazil's Trump, etc.

Maybe for Bolsonaro. But Boris Johnson is not comparable to Trump. I 
did fear that he could be like Trump, but he is not. Johnson is not 
an enemy of democracy. Trump is. That’s what I feel, or smell… I 
might be wrong, but Johnson has reassured me on that key point.

The other Trump in power are more like Kim Young Un, ABS (Saudi), 
Erdogan, and Putin...



    With the mainstream adoption of the Internet, in the early 2000s,
    political campaigns were reinvented (data-driven, highly targeted
    like advertisement). The early examples of this appear to be Tony
    Blair's second campaign in the UK and Obama's first in the US.
    Then it became the new norm, with increased sophistication. At
    the same time, journalism responded to the exestential threat
    created by the Internet by merging itself with the nascent
    ad-tech industry, pioneered by Google. In this new attention
    economy, the one who engages people's emotions the most wins. We
    are witnessing the race to the bottom that this creates, with
    widespread hysteria and irrationality from both sides of the
    political spectrum. I think that Trump and QAnon are products of
    this, and so is brexit on this side of the Atlantic.

You are right. I would add the Russian propaganda. Since long I tend 
to think that the Brexit is almost a pure result of Russian 
propaganda, but I have not found the time to verify all the 
evidences, so I cannot swear on this.

Causation is a difficult subject. The systematic lies in the Oil 
industry and derivatives has put the bandits into power, but even 
this necessitates a millenium of training in believing in fairy 
tales. Maybe the cause is the poor level of education in math and 
logic. Postmodern relativism does not help, … Truth Research is not 
well-seen those days..



.


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