On 12-07-2021 00:35, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 7:13 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
On 7/11/2021 9:53 AM, smitra wrote:
On 11-07-2021 02:41, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote:
On 7/10/2021 5:35 PM, smitra wrote:
On 11-07-2021 01:05, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 1:18 AM smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl>
wrote:
On 10-07-2021 07:58, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Neither of your analyses actually explain the observed
behaviour.
It does so, otherwise the experiment would have proven that QM
is
invalid.
So, in your opinion, the quantum mechanical analysis given in
the
paper is wrong.
It is correct, it's just that your conclusion about the MWI
based on
that paper is incorrect. Escaping infrared photons and the
decoherence this causes are totally irrelevant. Whether or not
an
interference pattern can be detected is not relevant to the
question
of whether or not a superposition exists when we know that it
exist
and it has no decohered. It's just that you then can't reproduce
one
particular line of evidence for the validity of quantum
mechanics in
that particular experiment.
If I prepare the state of a particle in a superposition and let
this interact in a certain way, then we know how this state will
evolve. If this evolution involves interactions with many
particles,
then the system will decohere. Then it may be true that we
cannot
distinguish the state of the system from being in a pure or
mixed
state in practice due to not being able to conduct an
interference
experiment involving a very large number of particles, but
quantum
mechanics still tells us that the superposition exists and that
if
we were to conduct the right sort of interference experiment, we
would see an interference that would prove that the state is not
a
mixed state.
But does it exist if part of the information has crossed the
Hubble
boundary? Then there is no experiment, even in principle, that
would
prove the state is not a mixed one.
The theories that tell you that there is such a thing like a
Hubble
boundary, also tell you that information does not vanish. We can
now
detect photons from galaxies that have always receded from us
faster
than light.
?? I think that's a contradiction.
It's worse than that -- it's gibberish.
It's a correct statement, see https://doi.org/10.1071/AS03040 page 101
section 3.3:
"The most distant objects that we can see
now were outside the Hubble sphere when their comoving
coordinates intersected our past light cone. Thus, they
were receding superluminally when they emitted the photons
we see now. Since their worldlines have always been
beyond the Hubble sphere these objects were, are, and
always have been, receding from us faster than the speed
of light.3"
Saibal
So, that's information we're that has leaked away from those
galaxies
that does objectively exists. To prove that a state is a pure
state
one can just point to the way the state was prepared and invoke
quantum mechanics. It's not necessary to demonstrate interference
to
prove that quantum mechanics is still valid.
So, then you agree with Bruce that so long as the which-way
information
exists in those outgoing photons, the interference pattern will show
up?
I think you might have meant that as long as the which-way information
exists (has not been quantum erased), then no interference is visible.
Bruce
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