On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 12:02:14AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > Am So, 21. Aug 2022, um 20:55, schrieb Tomasz Rola: > > On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 04:00:41AM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > [...] > > The problem you describe is there, but I do not think it is pertinent > > to religion or caused by it. > > > > You want to blame religion for the crimes done in its name? Ok, some > > blame belongs to it. But crimes are not being done to satiate > > religious feelings (except, perhaps, satanism) > > Satanism? Really? Satanism is christianity. YOU invented > satanism.
I assure you I have not invented satanism. Oh, if you meant plural "you", and me being a member of some group, I do not think I am a member of such a group. Groups with which I identify the most are: - harcerze = Polish scouts. I was very briefly a member. They were always a bit suspicious. But also a bit too good for this. And trust me, if we ever invented satanism, we would have badges for it. - programmers - I consider myself one, but a really lousy one. Hard to tell, perhaps we did it. But there would have been constant disagreement about which programming platform to use for promotion and miscreant behaviour. Anyway, traces of this should be on github. - engineers - ok, I have a degree but trust me, you will not want to drive over my bridge and I will never stand under any built by myself. But overally, we engineers are the most probably culprit. A capable engineer, two hundred years ago, would stand up an industrial complex from the grounds up. Some of us are good planners. I tell you what, if you ever acquire evidence it was engineers' plot, than man, you better stop fighting and join us. - thinkers - well, I am kind of on/off member. Thinkers like theory a lot but we are total and absolute loosers in this world. If you find evidence it was thinkers who did satanism, you will give us a great honor by considering us fight-worthy. They will make a movie about us, thousand against one you, us loosing patheticaly, most of times by very funny accidents with self made weapons. - antropologists - well, we antopologists are even bigger loosers. And I am just an amateur (never did anything to pursue degree), so an even lousier one. If you find us to be guilty, you can just let us go. We will keep talking about Satan, about connection between country shape on a map and form of Satan venerated in that country, taking notes of each other's talk. Really, if you decide to fight antropologists, people will laugh at you and make jokes of you. > Satanism is the fucking pure unadulterated narcissistic > projection of christian crimes. Fucking children? Priests are the > ones doing it by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Just in Europe, by the > way, no USA needed for this one: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Europe > > And the pope and the cardinals are all still protecting them and > conspiring to hide evidence. Ok, here the jokes end. It is a tragedy that children were being abused and it is huge shame for Church. You are very much right. It would be a better world, if the people involved could be subject of legal proceedings, rather than hiding and hushhushing. Still, if you are trying to make a case that rapings had anything to do with religious duties, I do not think so. They happened while priests were performing religious duties, but crimes were not integral (required) part of those duties. And I do not think it is possible to defend a thesis, that some kind of God veneration was linked to child abuse. For the purpose of this thread, I devised a very simple test. A crime usually yields some positive value for perpetrators. If the whole of the value had been transferred to their superiors, the church, some kind of entity like this, than of course the crime was being done for religious purpose... or at least there is a strong case to say so. So, in simper worlds, if perps were doing it all for free, without personal gains. In this case (child abuse), perps achieved sexual pleasure (I guess), which by its very nature could not be transferred. So there is a strong basis to say that they were satiating their instincts, rather than doing it for their faith. > How dare you? Uhumm. How dare I what exactly? How dare I to think? How dare I not be manipulated into emotional reaction? Because I am afraid you have been manipulated. A lot of people point their fingers towards the Church, and rightly so. At the same time, however, according to UNICEF, some 60 milion children are displaced from their homes, sometimes alone: [ https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1098612 ] So I understand we have a huge group of potential victims and we should know (if we can read the news) that there is a sizable group of rich abusers. The number one rule of capitalism says that clever solicitors will pop up in this vacuum between two groups, so they can meet each other. And the Church, no matter how many people dislike it, is not in this game. Not enough money. But I do not hear an angry outcry about this much bigger abuse. So far, on this planet, there was never a vaccum, never for too long. And yes, I make this up in my mind. But I believe my model of humanity is correct and this is what the model says. > Satanism? Like horrible tortures in the name of some sick god? Yeah that is > also christianity. > > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=inquisition+torture&t=newext&atb=v274-1&iax=images&ia=images In case of Inquisition, I gave you the rule to determine if they were doing their abuses for the faith or for themselves. Here is what Jewish wikipedia says: start quote FINANCING THE INQUISITION [ http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/financing.html ] It was widely accepted that the Inquisition existed only to rob people, as they openly affirmed (Kamen, The Spanish Inquisition, p 150). Both rich and poor knew that it was the rich who were most at risk. The fact that the Inquisition funded itself from the property it confiscated meant that it burned people on commission. Individual inquisitors also funded themselves, acquiring great wealth during their careers. Some inquisitors were known to have fabricated evidence in order to extort money from their victims, but even when discovered they received no punishment. Similarly their staff of helpers, called familiars, were free to commit crimes without fear of punishment by the secular courts. After 1518 this was formalised. Familiars enjoyed immunity from prosecution similar to benefit of clergy or modern diplomatic immunity. This provided another cause of popular scandal, along with their exemption from taxation . end quote So, seems to me, the Holy Inquisition was more like private enterprise, and great career for those who accused. > Or do you mean the "satanic panic", some disgusting confabulations > trying to blame goth kids and D&D nerds for things for which there > was zero evidence, while the true criminals are protected by the > small town sheriff and their shitty little churches? Destroying > lives, spending dozens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on > frivolous lawsuits: > > https://moglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/LawContempSoc/ZellyRosaFirstEssay > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic I understand this "satanic panic" was a fabrication by people willing to elevate themselves on social ladder, and to promote themselves in local government administration. From prosecutor to judge. From judge to governor. I never heard (but also never researched) about priest being promoted because he caught some DnD players. > All of this amplified by Oprah Winfrey and other mainstream media > grifters for profit: You mean Oprah works for a pope? Or does she simply collect as much money as she can, because she likes the job and money? > https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatanicPanic > https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-27-ca-449-story.html > > Kids spending decades in death row, being traumatized forever for > the crime of dressing in black and liking metal in some shithole > christian town? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three > > And then being denied basic justice to this very day? > > https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/local/damien-echols-one-west-memphis-three-heads-court-today/NPSNZ3JTONFFVPKFV4WA5BSYEY/ > > Or the sick vengeful things christians do to young women who dared > to protest you, in this very century in countries where there is no > recourse to the law? > > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/freed-pussy-riot-amnesty-prison-putin-humiliation > > That is true satanism. Perhaps it is. I wonder if you still mean Catholic Church was somehow involved in all this sensationalist scam, which happened in USA? That sounds sensational in itself, given how little influence CC has in that country. At least I think they have almost nothing to say, because the land had been long ago grabbed by various religious movements not belonging and not aligning themselves with CC. I admit, like I wrote in one of previous mails, I have not too much idea about religion in USA. Catholic domination there would have greatly surprised me, however. > I still remember the psychological abuse that I was subject to in my > 6 years of forced Sunday school. It is not much compared to the > things I mention above, but I remember that I was less than ten > years old and I couldn't sleep at night because christian sickos put > the ideas of heaven and hell (both terrifying) in my mind, trying to > make me feel eternally guilty for being a perfectly normal and > healthy human being. Too bad you have been abused. Perhaps one day you will discover that you have more strength than you think, and wisdom to use it for something good. Like, helping others. Or something. Each new day is a day away from that bad time in the past. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20220822081858.GC23611%40tau1.ceti.pl.
