On Monday, September 30, 2024 at 11:09:49 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote:
@Alan. I have no idea what you just said. But anyway, the point is: as long as you are not a paid scientist that do science in order to build technology, the kind of theoretical "science" that you want to do is just a waste of time. Because is not based on anything logical. Is just conceptual mumbo-jumbo: universes, infinities, atoms, galaxies. What are all these hallucinations ? The only theoretical undertaking that makes sense even if you are not a working scientist is understanding consciousness. Because only in understanding consciousness, you: 1. can have conceptual grounding by using entities that really exist, i.e. qualia, free will, etc., and 2. is important for your own understanding of who you are, and thus make your life better. Everything else is just mental masturbation. What I mean is this; if there are numerous consciousnesses determining outcomes or results in what we, according to you, MIS interpret as physical reality, it seems impossible to know their preferences to understand anything. So, it reminds me of ancient times when temples were built for presumed consciousnesses, then called Gods, to get them to do our biddings. It's like your philosophy for theory is, in part at least, a throwback to an ancient world-view with no predictive, or even enlightening value. For example, the orbit of Pluto occasionally (every few hundred years I would guess) crosses the orbit of Neptune. I know why that occurs. It's totally dependent on initial conditions. But you presumably reject that explanation and have nothing to replace it with, other than the claim that it depends on the collective personal wishes of conscious entities. AG On Monday 30 September 2024 at 15:04:56 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, September 30, 2024 at 5:46:42 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: @Alan. "Planets" is just an interpretation in your consciousness for social interactions between consciousnesses that you cannot even imagine. In the same way that this writing on the screen is your interpretation of there being a "Cosmin Visan" supposedly somewhere. I concede that if I can't imagine who's pulling the strings, so to speak, I won't be able to build temples to worship and appease them. AG On Monday 30 September 2024 at 09:57:26 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, September 30, 2024 at 12:50:56 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: @Alan. No. Is simply the truth. When reality is simply the sum of interacting consciousnesses, then whatever patterns might be produced will simply be produced by the free wills of consciousnesses engaging in social relations. The more primitive a consciousness is, the more predictable the pattern of its activity. The more complex a consciousness is, the less predictable its pattern. That's why there appear to be "laws of physics", because those "laws of physics" are nothing else than patterns of interactions of primitive consciousnesses (consciousnesses that you cannot even imagine). Then when you get to chemistry, biology, human society, consciousnesses become more complex and the patterns become more elusive. So the planets move in their orbits because of the free will of social relations among consciousnesses? AG On Monday 30 September 2024 at 04:09:59 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 2:58:08 PM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: @Alan. That's like asking me how from the functioning of the transistor I can give you the formula for the fireball in World of Warcraft. Is impossible. The higher level world is an interaction between the free will of the consciousnesses involved. You will have to feel what those consciousnesses feel to understand why "the universe is expanding", etc. Aristotelian logic. AG On Sunday 29 September 2024 at 15:49:24 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 6:14:05 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: @Alan. If you don't start a theory from the correct facts of reality, you get nowhere. Sure, some approximations that you make might work in particular cases, but the more you stretch the theory the less likely is to be meaningful. Only because Newton theory worked on Earth, it didn't mean it worked on the solar system. Only because Einstein theory worked on solar system, it didn't mean it worked on the galaxy. And so on. These are all approximations. The more you go outside their domain of applicability, the less likely they are to provide answers. The only way to receive correct answers is if you start from the correct fact of reality. And that is consciousness. There's nothing you write that indicates in any way, how starting from your perspective is helpful in any way. And don't tell me I need to read your paper. If your perspective is so enlightening, you should be able to point a way to solving some problems I raise. As for the professor who thinks the universe might be infinite but has no clue what that implies, it's obvious he's not as smart as he thinks he is, and has probably fallen in love with his illusion. And that's MY explanation of his behavior. AG On Sunday 29 September 2024 at 07:06:05 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Saturday, September 28, 2024 at 11:58:23 AM UTC-6 Cosmin Visan wrote: What about Santa Claus ? Is Santa Claus infinite in expansion ? Argument: He can bring presents to all the children in the world in just 1 night. Please do me a favor and don't respond to my posts, unless you can seriously contribute to answering the questions I pose. Your philosophy or theory might be correct, but it doesn't offer any operational value in solving the issues I raise. Good bye and good luck. AG On Saturday 28 September 2024 at 19:13:23 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, September 27, 2024 at 11:56:47 AM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 9:09:17 AM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: Proof by Contradiction: If the universe is infinite in spatial extent, and came into being, that would be a type of singularity where it would have to *instantaneously* expand infinitely in spatial extent. Such a process is unphysical. Therefore, a universe infinite in spatial extent cannot come into being, and is therefore uncreated. AG A more direct way of understanding my claim: If you don't believe the universe can instantaneously expand to infinity, it must be finite in spatial extent, since no progressive expansion, no matter how fast, or for how long, can be infinite in spatial extent. Therefore, given the premise, the universe must be finite in spatial extent and cannot be flat. QED. AG I sent the physicist/cosmologist at Case Western a short email reminding him that if he assumes the universe (presumably, the unobservable part) is infinite in spatial extent, it always was, since there is no transition or evolution from finite to infinite, or vis-versa, he was also implicitly assuming that the universe began with an *instantaneous* transition to infinite in spatial extent at T=0. No reply. No thank you. As expected. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8cb1466b-764c-40b5-90fc-23d4f6efec5en%40googlegroups.com.
