On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 8:53 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote:
*>> The violation of Bell's Inequality proves that if quantum mechanics is > deterministic and local then it cannot be realistic. As I said before, the > universe cannot be realistic and local and deterministic, at least one of > those three things must be wrong but we don't know which one.* > *> You keep claiming this is true, but I haven't seen it proven, or if you > proved it I didn't get it.* *Using nothing but high school algebra and trigonometry Bell proved in 1964 that it would be logically impossible to violate an inequality that he found IF you assume that things were deterministic, AND they existed in one and only one state before they were measured, AND messages could not be transmitted faster than light. But experiments show that his Inequality IS VIOLATED , therefore at least one of his three assumptions must be untrue * *I did my best to explain to you how Bell came up with his inequality but you still don't get it and I am sorry about that. But professional quantum physicists certainly get it, that's why two physicist got the Nobel Prize in 2022 for performing loophole free experiments proving that Bell's Inequality is indeed violated, there is no longer any doubt about it. * *It's just a fact, there may be consequences from violating Bell that some find philosophically unsettling, but that doesn't stop it from being a fact. You've either got to change your philosophy or decide that you don't mind having a philosophy that contains logical contradictions. * * >** isn't it generally accepted that QM is non-local? * *NO! It is UNIVERSALLY accepted that things could still be local IF messages can be sent faster than the speed of light, OR IF things can be in more than one definite state before they are measured. * > * > SR says instantaneous propagation is falsified. * *Special Relativity is a theory and in physics a theory can't falsify anything, only an experiment can do that. And Bell's inequality has been falsified, like it or not we're just going to have to live with the consequences of that fact. * * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* 7d/ > *In Special Relativity Bob sees Alice's clock running at half the speed of > his clock, and Alice sees Bob's clock running it at half the speed of her > clock, this is because both of them can think of themselves as being > stationary and the other one as being the one that is moving close to the > speed of light. This situation may seem odd but it is not logically > paradoxical if instantaneous communication is impossible, but if it turns > out to be possible then there are problems, serious problems. Bob looks at > his clock and it says two hours, but he knows that Alice's clock must read > one hour because it is running at half speed, and he knows that the > instantaneous message receiving screen on Alice's spaceship must say "the > answer to your question how much is 11+3 is 14" because Bob just sent that > message and it is instantaneous. So Alice received the answer one hour > before she thought of the question. * > > > > *The violation of Bell's Inequality proves that if quantum mechanics is > deterministic and local then it cannot be realistic. As I said before, the > universe cannot be realistic and local and deterministic, at least one of > those three things must be wrong but we don't know which one.* > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0uFY5x8c%3DFHNRgEDmrEfy-%3DKXp6qvxvrfoO%3DGPR1SpFg%40mail.gmail.com.
