On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 8:05:10 AM UTC-6 Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Le jeu. 17 oct. 2024, 15:56, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a écrit : On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 7:31:32 AM UTC-6 Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le jeu. 17 oct. 2024, 14:14, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a écrit : On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 5:20:26 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 1:14 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *> Ostensibly, applying SR, Bob concludes Alice's clock is running slower than his, and vice-versa for Alice* *Yes.* *> so you conclude Alice get Bob's response to her question before she sends it.* *No. Watching somebody's Clock that is running slower than your clock does NOT mean you are observing their time running backwards. * *I know that! You claimed from Bob's pov, Alice's clock is running slower (not running backwards), and when he sends his reply his clock reads 2, whereas Alice's clock reads 1, before she sent the question. I remember that clearly. No one claimed her clock was running backwards. So, without instantaneous anything how is the paradox resolved, and how is this related to MW? TY, AG* The paradox is resoved if there is mo ftl... please do a work on yourself and try to understand what others are saying... *Anyone can say anything, including yourself, but that's not a proof of anything. At best it's a claim. AG * ? If there is no ftl, there is no paradox, ftl brings a paradox because the simultaneity plan is different for alice and bob. That's just SR, that's just what JC said and he's not claiming anything afaics. *Another claim. The only thing lacking is a proof. Moreover, you're factually mistaken. There surely IS an apparent paradox without FTL. The paradox is how can Bob and Alice see the other's clock running slower if we consider a scenario where they pass each other. AG* *> Obviously, there's a major problem here and I suspect it's related to your interpretation of relative clock rates in SR.* *It's odd, no doubt about it, but it causes no physical paradoxes IF nothing can travel through space faster than the speed of light. * *Ostensibly, there is a paradox and you seem unable to resolve it. Claiming it is "odd" fails to resolve the matter. I think Brent knows the solution. AG* *Space itself can move at any speed without producing paradoxes. If there existed particles that moved through space faster than the speed of light** (called Tachyons <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon> ) and it was possible for us to interact with them, then causality would be violated. And if Bob and Alice used tachyons instead of light photons to observe then they would see the others clock moving backwards, not just slowing down. And you'd be able to observe and even kill your grandfather 10 years before he met your grandmother, and you'd have to deal with all the paradoxes that would produce. But as far as we can tell Tachyons do not exist. * *> I can't say exactly what's the problem with your interpretation of relative clock rates. Nor do I understand what this has to do with the viability of MW.* *I was just making the point that if Tachyons existed (and I do NOT think they do) then the only way I can think of to resolve the grandfather paradox is through Many Worlds. If you or anybody else can think of another way to resolve it I'm all ears. * *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* deq -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3cf9704c-f6b7-4b5a-995c-bf4f506f9488n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3cf9704c-f6b7-4b5a-995c-bf4f506f9488n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/46236c0d-718a-41c9-a050-b180fdb574f9n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/46236c0d-718a-41c9-a050-b180fdb574f9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/46fa67f3-3a1a-4482-b3d9-8951f44834a6n%40googlegroups.com.
