Can I get a jacket? XXL preferably -----Original Message----- From: Erik Sojka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics
Apples and oranges. Ed is not the IT director of Ohio (nor does he play any kind of similar role in any of his consulting engagements, I'd imagine). If Consolidated Widgets, Inc. hired Ed to do <$vague_technical_work> and the IT director of CWI then received a leather jacket from a vendor, then I can see there being an ethical problem for the IT director. Not for Ed. In your example, were any of the *conslutants* fired over the jackets? > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:22 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > I've argued the theory on this too many times now. Let me provide a > specific example. At time, I wear a Novell leather jacket. I > received this > jacket at the end of a project for the State of Ohio. > Basically, the State > of Ohio gave Novell something like $1 million for > implementing a G-NOC. I > worked on this project and at the end Novell gave out about > 50 of these > leater jackets to people that worked on the project in this big huge > ceremony that was held. The director at the State of Ohio was > forced to > resign over accepting his leather jacket because of conflict > of interest > rules. > > So, the State of Ohio had ALREADY paid Novell ALL of the > money and THEN > Novell gave out these gifts and the director at the State of Ohio was > STILL found to have violated conflict of interest rules. > > Does that make anything more clear? > > > > Where's the conflict if Ed consults on Microsoft products? > They come to > > him for MS products! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Greg Deckler > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:10 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > You can be offended all you want, it does not change the FACT that > > accepting a direct gift from a vendor creates an obvious > problem with > > basic conflict of interest rules. I don't make these rules > up all I have > > stated is that a real or perceived conflict exists. If the > argument held > > no water, then there would be no reason to be offended. > > > > > It's not exactly a gift. It's a recognition for a contribution > > pefrormed. > > > There are, admittedly, strings attached, although there > are none that=20 > > > I consider to be ethical issues. > > >=20 > > > I completely resent your entire assertion that I am > somehow unethical=20 > > > because I accept the title and gifts associated with > being an MVP. I=20 > > > will defend my standards of ethics against anyone's, > including your=20 > > > poorly defined and indefensible set. In fact, I was > nearly fired from > > > > > my current job because I defended ethical behavior, but > the system=20 > > > worked and I am still here. (This was completely unrelated to=20 > > > anything surrounding Microsoft or MVP.) > > >=20 > > > So, let's get back to the real argument. Please either > (1) prove how=20 > > > being an MVP is unethical, or (2) go away and let this > thread rest. I > > > > > tire of your repeated extrapolations, digressions, and=20 > > > less-than-brilliant treatises. > > >=20 > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Greg Deckler > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:51 AM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > >=20 > > > The flaw here is that that "Cisco Certified" has clearly > defined=20 > > > things that must be met and requires a payment to the vendor to=20 > > > achieve. You must PAY to get the required material. You > must PAY to=20 > > > take the tests. You must PAY for the certification. > > >=20 > > > MVP is a gift. There are no explicit requirements and > there is no=20 > > > exchange of currency. > > >=20 > > > This is the CLEAR difference between certifications and gifts like > > MVP. > > >=20 > > > > Titles based on criteria that has been successfully > met, as in MVP=20 > > > > or Cisco Certified, etc., has no ethical issues. It is > an earned=20 > > > > title that denotes an area of expertise. It is up to > those who view=20 > > > > the title to determine if the criteria for getting the title=20 > > > > warrants a level of trust and respect. > > > >=20 > > > > Personal gifts from vendors that you make purchasing > decisions=20 > > > > regarding is unethical. > > > >=20 > > > > Rules of ethics are necessary in this business. > > > >=20 > > > > Ceaselessly arguing in order to have the last word is > poor use of=20 > > > > brain power, poor use of this list and poor use of > ethics. Anyone=20 > > > > whose priority is to *always* win the "fight" must > sacrifice the=20 > > > > truth and good judgment, thereby violating basic ethics. > > > >=20 > > > > Just another opinion :-) > > > >=20 > > > > Best Regards,=3D20 > > > >=20 > > > > Dan Bartley > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:24 > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > >=20 > > > > I got to the first paragraph in your post and pretty > much quit=20 > > > > reading.=3D20 > > >=20 > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > > Web Interface: > > > = > > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=3Dexchange &text_mode > > =3D&lang > > =3Denglish > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=3Dexchange&text_mode=3D= > & > lang=3Denglish > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang = english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
