Easy there David, I think you’re overlooking some pretty critical issues here.

1.      The Online Nightly Maintenance certainly does SOME defragmentation 
internally and makes available some areas to be overwritten with new incoming 
data if all the moons are aligned properly, but it does not reduce the physical 
database size or optimizes indexes etc.

2.      So if you have a database that is physically 100GB and yet it only 
contains say 60GB of actual data what does that tell you?    This also means 
that you are unnecessarily backing up 40GB conversely if you do a restore it’s 
a 100GB restore rather than 60GB

3.      NOTE: Archiving firms tell clients that they will reduce database size 
and increase optimization by moving data out of the db and into the archive.  
Its only after implementation that they tell clients oh yeah well to get the db 
smaller and optimized you have to run ESEutil /D to get actually reduce the 
physical db size.

4.      NOTE2: Defragmentation alone is not the answer to database 
optimization, nor was it the answer to this client’s issue. As a matter of fact 
simply running ESEutil /d on its own repeatedly is a sure way to damage or kill 
your database.

5.      NOTE3:  Lucid8 has partnered with the leaders in Exchange Archiving 
systems such as Symantec, Zantaz and others in order to provide their clients 
with an automated maintenance and optimization solution for Exchange. 
 
6.      GOexchange delivers much more then defragmentation, i.e. it provides db 
maintenance defragmentation and optimization 

If you still think it’s possible to achieve these results by simply letting 
Exchange run and run, then go try it and you will soon learn the truth.   

Better yet, I challenge you to run our product in DEMO mode on a live Exchange 
server that’s been running for some time and hasn’t had any type of manual 
maintenance run, see what the results are and then talk to us. 

DC

------ Responded to  on 2008-01-23 11:43:00  by <David Lum>----

I have found this to be an interesting thread. Chasing down some of the quoted 
testimonials, I Googled “Steve McHargue Chief Information Officer Jackson 
Walker LLP” , which led me to an InformationWeek article which pretty much is 
another GOexchange and gives more details about the “issues” they were having.
http://www.informationweek.com/software/messaging/166403975

“Jackson Walker had been using Veritas’ KVS product for archiving, but while 
KVS had extracted over 200 gigabytes of data from the Exchange Server, the 
databases themselves were not getting any smaller, and the number of errors and 
warnings were growing along with the time it took to backup and restore.”

NO SH!T! They don’t get smaller unless you do an online defrag. 

Dave Lum  - Systems Engineer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - (971)-222-1025
"When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands" 


From: Tom Strader [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:54 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: RE: GOexchange Response


It's looking more like that's the consensus Rene'.
Thanks for your time to look and respond.
 
Tom

________________________________________
From: René de Haas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:30 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: RE: GoExchange Response

Had a little look at their website and I agree don’t see much value added 
either.The thing that puzzles me with the comment below from a satisfied 
customer, how does doing offline defrags help you with achieving a high uptime 
since you need to stop services to run it?

“Uptime and Availability: "After just one use of GOexchange, our information 
stores were reduced by 45-50% with thousands of errors, warnings, and 
inconsistencies corrected. Without GOexchange we would be unable to provide the 
current level of 99.999% uptime and availability to our customers."”

Think I only needed to run it once and I’ve worked with exchange since version 
5.5.

Also they mention defragging the db. Doesn’t exchange do that by itself??? 
Unless they mean an offline defrag which MS even says only if necessary.


From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:13 PM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: RE: GoExchange Response


If Dane Cue would like to join this forum (or another that is not vendor 
controlled) I’ll be happy to discuss each and every point. Otherwise, why 
bother? I’ve seen much of the material in that response before. I think a 
number of other MVPs would agree.

He can call me “crazy” or “out in left field” or whatever he wants. And I can 
do the same. In most of this, he says the same thing that I and others said – 
just using different word that spin the answer differently. Several times he 
asserts that I mean something that I did not say.

>From an insurance perspective – I absolutely agree – good backups are 
>important. I don’t know what other value-add they truly provide, other than 
>disaster recovery.

I can provide documentation to back up my statements. I can provide a quote 
from one of the key developers for ESE that says you don’t do these things on a 
regular basis. To wit:

…I'm glad you'd never recommend a tool that would
recommend offline defrag as standard maintenance! :)  I generally don't
recommend regular offline defrags myself, believing if that becomes
necessary it is an issue that should be fixed in ESE or whatever app
(Exch/AD) is using ESE.  

Lucid8 has a vested interest in selling their product. I respect that. They do 
provide some value-add with reporting. But that is all that I see. And I don’t 
approve of their marketing. I personally think that it is misleading.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Tom Strader [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:48 PM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: GoExchange Response


List, 
I have a response from Lucid8 concerning their GoExchange product and the 
questions that were posted a week or so back. I've tried to post the response 
here but the Lyris server says its too large so if anyone want to read their 
response, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll forward it to you. 
It is in DOCX format. 
Sincerely, 
Tom Strader 
Server Systems Administrator 
NC Blumenthal Performing Arts Center 
704.379.1285 Office | 704.444.2098 Fax
http://www.linkedin.com/in/tstrader 
"There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems." 

 


 

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