Friday 17 May 2002 09:43 pm,Wolfgang Bornath wrote: <snip> > If there wasn't this last sentence about 'thoughtful responses' I would > not have bothered to jump in. ;-) > > IMHO the lists were just what they were, a list for expert probs and > issues and a list for newbie Q's & As. But this has changed over the time > out of several reasons: > > 1 > People sometimes tend to overestimate themselves and/or their problems. > So some users may say, I don't post on the newbie list because I'm not a > newbie. Or others may think, My problem is one of the most mind boggling > problems, it cannot be answered on a list full of newbies. Or if so it > may show that I am a newbie myself. > > Wrong. After working with Linux for a couple of years now there are a lot > of issues and areas where I regard myself as a newbie (i.e. I never > bothered about Samba and Apache, so in those areas I'm a newbie). > > 2 > Some folks think the distinction between the lists is very straight: here > newbies and there experts. So they post all questions to the expert list > because they think that all the experts are only there. > > Wrong. A lot of newbies can and do answer other newbie questions because > a lot of the newbie questions are also FAQs and may hve just been > answered the day before. Furthermore some real experts are lurking on the > newbie list and do a great job there. They have really understood one of > the pillars of the Linux Community. > > 3 > Some users start out asking questions in the newbie list because they > regard themselves as newbie. But for this or that reason their Qs will > not be answered in the newbie list. So they move the issue to the expert > list and get their answer/solution. After doing that a couple of times > they think, hey, why not save time and post to the expert list right > away? > > Wrong, but understandable. > > > I'm not too annoyed by this mingling of the lists. There are some real > newbie Qs I read where I store away the answers for future reference. > > What I do not like are those "list nazis" (while, being a german, I don't > really appreciate the term) you mentioned. *Everybody* has been a newbie > once! And everybody who uses this wonderful piece of software is obliged > to give something back to the community. > > I get a lot of mails from german users who think I am part of support and > start out like: I have this problem with your software, you must help me. > Most of their Qs are the typical 1st time questions (How do I create a > new directory, How do I find my drive C:, etc.). I cannot write a short > mail with "Buy a book, learn" and nothing else. I answer their Qs and > then I give a short (8 lines) tutorial about this "Buy a book, RTFM, Try > yourself and come back later" scheme. > > All of you who read so far have my heartfelt sympathy! > > wobo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks for the sympathy. I'll pass. :-)
>From the perspective of a true newbie (myself); I subscribed to both lists as well as various others to learn. I don't often post a response because I don't really know or am unsure of the answer that I think I do have. I haven't even had to ask too many questions, due to the availability of the archives and the answers already there. But on an issue that I _do_ have an answer that I'm sure of I'll post. I'm aware that there generally isn't one correct answer, but almost always more than one. But that's why I like this and the newbie list. Sometimes the second third and fourth opinions are the ones that get the questioner thinking about their problem in a way that leads them to true learning. It does for me at any rate. The thing about the "Open Source Community" that scares so many people is condescension from "veterans." As in being made to feel foolish for asking a question. Too many people feel they have to be "The World's Greatest Authority" uncontested. Never had a 'temporary cranial cloudburst?' Those are more the cause of questions that seem to fall into the RTFM category than anything. At least for me. Nobody asked me for this "input;" but on this subject I'm absolutely certain. One doesn't invite a person to join a community and then berate them for asking questions to further their understanding. Not in a "civilized community" anyway. Perennial newbie; -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org You can't start worrying about what's going to happen. You get spastic enough worrying about what's happening now. -- Lauren Bacall
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