** Lyvim Xaphir (Dienstag, 3. Juni 2003 03:23) > On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 18:14, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > This is a subjective opinion. There are some reasons why someone > > who is using Mandrake as a desktop system should upgrade (err - not > > upgrade, I'll come to that later). > > We will have to agree to disagree on this. Cause from what I've seen > on the list here there are more problems being posted than in times > past, and this from users that I've been reading for a long while.
You have to substract the "problems" being caused by updating the whole system. As is shown everywhere on in the forums updating a whole system is a risky thing. There were not so many distro related problems with fresh installs. Many postings I read came from users who where unable to install the nvidia drivers. Most of that was related to faults by the users themselves. Anyhow, I just stated my personal experence and the impression I got from the newsgroup. [speed] > This is more than an opinion, since the stopwatch is incapable of > lying. Hmm, I don't care for stopwatches or benchmarks because I don't have to work with benchmarks everyday but with my system. For that I have the overall impression of more speed. > What do your benchmarks say, or have you run any? FYI the hardware > here is identical to the LM82 days, as I have previously stated. As > are the names of the apps. Same app names, same hardware, different > distro. Same here. I did not change the relevant pieces (cpu, memory, harddisks, graphics card) between 8.2 and 9.1. I also use the same apps except for news (changed from knode to pan). Hardware is Celeron 1100, 512M RAM, 80G hda, 40G hdb, DVD and CDRW on hdc and hdd, Geforce4 MX400 64M. All in all a plain system without any extravaganza. Attached is an Epson printer via parallel port, a card reader on USB and a USB wheel mouse. Monitor is a 18" TTF. > Yes, what about bugzilla? And what about the errata pages? Neither > address the point; which is formal bug reporting for production > problems. I'm sorry, as Vincent already pointed out bugzilla is only for cooker. I stand corrected on this one. [Software Manager] > Depends on your perspective. In the overall space shuttle view of > the company, no it's not a small issue, it sets a bad precedent. It > is basically a statement that says the majority of Club members have > no voice at those times when it really matters, or when it could be > proven that their club dollars do actually buy a voice in LMXX > architecture. In this case the money (silver, standard or otherwise) > did not buy a voice. I already pointed out that the club money did *buy* a voice. I already pointed out that the voting system was always presented as a suggestion pool for the developpers. To make it clear: If the majority of members who actually voted did recommend something then the developpers would try to do this. But if the developpers would have a reason to leave it out they would do that. The final contents of the distribution was always the developper's call. > Some are bothered, some are not. The polls make all that academic > and not useful to the crux of the issue. There is something to Anne's point of view to that: How many members did really vote against the new system compared to the overall number of members? As it is in most cases, I guess most of the members who did not like the new system voted against it. But also I'm sure that most of the members who did not care or accepted the new system did not vote at all. This makes a different picture, right. > I've already stated my position clearly on this and you still don't > understand; if you think it's OK to tell an overwhelmingly large > majority of voters to bite the big one then we just disagree. It's a > bad precedent and sets the stage for more to come. I think you have a wrong perception of the club altogether. The club is *not* a part of the community which could dictate MandrakeSoft what to do. The club can make suggestions. If those suggestions get the OK from developper's side then the suggestion will be taken. If not, then not. As simple as that. It was never said that the club members could demand something being done. > To me it is the the REAL world of distros, in which people need to do > work, and has already demonstrably succeeded in the past with LM8X, > so there's no reason it can't happen again. There were always releases which were better than others. And there were always releases which were worse than others. > > It is something no commercial orientated company can go. > > I don't really know what "something no commercial orientated company > can go" means. Can you revise your grammar a bit? Sorry, last word had to be 'do' instead of 'go'. Does that make more sense? Please have mercy, English is not my native language. I tried to say that no commercial company, a company which wants to earn money, can keep a distribution on hold until the very last bit of possible unstability was checked. This is only possible for not-commercial communities like Debian. For Debian it is totally unimportant when the next release will come. All you can hear from them is: "It's ready when it's ready." A business company cannot do that. They have to meet deadlines, they have to make arrangements for production and printing, not to mention the logistics. And they have to produce releases inside a time frame to stay in business. Counting all of that MandrakeSoft did a superb job with 9.1 and most people I heard (and read) say that it's the best release so far. > Hmmm. Well, based on what I've read so far I don't think I'm the one > that's in need of some reading or understanding. I never visited the qa site because I never had the reason to deal with a bug. So far you are correct. I already accepted that. Concerning the club concept and the rights of the members I had the pleasure of watching the whole idea from the start. I remember Deno talking about the voting system a couple of months before it was employed. I did a lot of translating of the announcements and also of the related docs. So I thought I did some reading as far as the club and the voting system is concerned. > > I very rarely read about > > someone having such serious problems like you describe. There must > > be reasons. Just sitting there and saying that 9.1 is unstable and > > produced in a very unprofessional way is not a solution. > > I never presented a solution since it is the problem I have and not > the solution. If I had the solution I would have never presented the > problem. What information I have on this situation has been > presented. So if you're telling me I'm not supposed to report > problems on a support mailing list, ... I understand your frustration because I'm also looking for a solution to a major problem with my PDA. You may have misunderstood me. I tried to say that calling the 9.1 release unstable and calling the way MandrakeSoft did it unprofessional is no solution to your problems. I did not read about your problems in the mailing list but that was my fault. I was too occupied by other things. So I scanned only for related postings. I never meant to say that posting problems on this list is a no-no. After all this list is there to provide solutions from users for users. > ...then I'm just going to file 13 > that suggestion with the production bug report info you provided Sorry, I don't understand the meaning of this last sentence. What does "file 13" mean? And which info for which production bug report did I provide? Or did I get tha whole meaning wrong? wobo -- Public GnuPG key available at http://www.wolf-b.de/misc
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