On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 11:17, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > ** Lyvim Xaphir (Dienstag, 3. Juni 2003 16:23) > > [speed] > > It is extremely unreliable to rely on impressions rather than > > reality; the two must always be separated in order to gain a true > > image of the scenario in question. That is if you are truly serious > > about getting an honest evaluation. Separating impressions from > > reality is what benchmarks are all about. Otherwise, you've got an > > emotional evaluation, and that is never reliable when you've got an > > investment at stake. > > > > Timing performance with a watchpiece takes the emotion and > > unreliability out of the equation and gives you an honest, true > > result. Which is what you want if you are interested in the truth. > > Of course, if you want to sell something you have to use figures. There > you have to use benchmarks and stopwatches. > > But during my work with numerous users during the last decade I always > realized that the individual impression of the "felt" speed of the > system is what sold the package.
> I know what you mean by "honest, true result" and you are right. But if > the user or customer "feels" that his MSIE loads the website faster > then you can throw as many figures at him, he'll never buy. In general, that has not been my experience. In general. Most people are not stupid and if you confront them with hard tangible factual results that contradict their preconceptions then they will revise their own estimations in view of the reality. Case in point is a winblows user I converted to Mandrake a while back; he swore up and down that 98 was loading faster. That was from his "impressionist reality". When I demonstrated with a stopwatch that Mandrake was loading a full 30 seconds faster, he was "wow"ed that he could have been so far off. He thanked me for correcting his erroneous impressions in favor of the real reality. So instead of arguing pointlessly and emotionally for three hours on the issue, the stopwatch settled the question factually and unemotionally in less than 60 seconds. That's not the first time that's happened and it won't be the last; I've gotten used to it. Most people are reasonable and will do the same thing; most people do not consciously desire to be in error. I admit that there are exceptions to the rule however. > > Which in a democratic system, such as supposedly we are in here, can > > be called to question, just as you and I call each other to question > > in this diatribe. There is nothing wrong with calling a Mandrake > > decision out on the mat, as I do here, since they put their pants on > > every day just like I do, and the bathroom probably stinks when they > > get through with it, just like everybody else. > > We are not in a democratic system here. We are in MandrakeSoft's system > and they are free to do what they want to do. They never said that they > will do what the voters suggest, they always stated that it will be > what the word implies: a *suggestion*. It's no different in a democracy. The officials in charge are not obligated to carry out every whim of the voters that are put forth, and ofttimes they don't. The rub is that the success with which they represent their voters and make them happy will determine wether they stay or go with the next election. This basically is what is happening here, more or less, with the dollars being indirect votes in our case. So you can argue semantics all day long, but the hard reality is that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and paddles thru the water like a duck, then it's probably a duck. It doesn't matter whether you call the vote a suggestion, a demand, or a polite inquiry; the fact is that it is in any case a representation of the wishes of the majority. If those wishes (in the majority) are swept aside in spite of the money paid for that representation then it is up to the users to protest. It is their right to do so and you saying that MandrakeSoft is free to do whatever *they* want does not change that fact or take away that right. Plus, *for the record*, I never said that Mandrakesoft *had* to do this or *had* to do that because of votes; this is something that is coming only from you. It is already painfully obvious that they don't have to do anything and it was assumed that point was so very obvious that it didn't need to be stated. Guess I was wrong. My point from the beginning has been merely that it is **in their best interests*** to honor the relevance of the majority. I believe the relevance of the majority has been compromised in the polls, and that your philosophy stands ready to exacerbate the issue. Not complicated. > > > Members can demand whatever the hell they want to demand, it's their > > right, which they paid for, btw. Now whether Mandrakesoft listens to > > them or not, that's the real issue and the real thing that's being > > questioned here cause that is what determines the true value of your > > club dollars. > > No. Yes. > > > Pretty much, but this doesn't address the talking point of using > > already compiled wisdom for production of future distros (as opposed > > to tossing it out the door), which was the original point here. > > Sometimes it is the way of all things to make room for different (better > or not) things. Old wisdom. This applies well to cars but not as well to ideologies. The truth of ideologies is of a permanent nature. An example is socialism, which is just as stupid an idea as it ever was from it's conception. On the other hand democracy is a good idea as it ever was from it's conception, which is why the voting system was instituted on the Club in the first place, and the point is that we are discussing ideological items here and not cars. > The voting system has produced a release which is by now called the most > successful release in MandrakeSoft's history. Is that a sign of > regarding the user's needs an inconvenience? There are many measures of success. I might think I'm successful because I can get a date with the looker babe over in the next office. On the other hand my wife would not consider that success, and would revise my definition of success in short order. Therefore she has a proprietary impact on my personal definition of success; which indicates that the most relevant items in any situation are typically what determine success. In Mandrake's case, money and finances seem to be the wife that determines their success in the here and now. Are you saying that LM91 has brought in more money than any other LMXX distribution in history? > > > Because it is the *members* that are giving their time and money to > > the product in order to support the company, and it is the members > > who will tell others whether their votes count or not, and therefore > > it is the members who will ultimately decide whether more members > > should join the club or not. Consequently there is a direct > > relationship to the relevance of the polls to the profitability of > > the Mandrakeclub. So when a major front page poll goes a certain > > way, it should be addressed IMMEDIATELY by the developers in order to > > demonstrate RELEVANCE of the members and their monetary > > contributions. > > The developpers did address the issue immediately and decided to have > their way. The way the issue was addressed was by basically terminating the polls and ignoring the majority; that's the only address I've seen. > > > Otherwise, there *is no* relevance and thus questionable purpose in > > membership. > > Hmm, this leads me to the impression that your only reason to join the > club was the ability to vote on Mandrake's distro contents. And the impression you give is that no matter what happens in the polls, we are supposed to suck up and just ignore what is going on like a bunch of sheeple - ignoring the main benefit of the club which is to influence the characteristics of the distro in favor of the majority. > You have written that 9.1 was rolled out by understaffed company and you > related that to the unstability. If a company does that they are acting > unprofessional. You did not say it but what you wrote implied it. > If I have misunderstood then I beg your pardon. I don't know if you have misunderstood, but you are most certainly missing the point. The questions you need to answer honestly and in reality with no marketing spin (or impressionist realities) are the following: Is MandrakeSoft truly understaffed with overworked employees and is that related to the features of the present release or lack thereof? Yes or no. Not complicated. --LX -- 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같 Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Linux Mandrake 9.1 Enlightenment-0.16.5-12mdk Evolution 1.2.4-1.1mdk Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
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