See my last email for some responses to Holobuda that anticipate your discussion.
Catholicism was the only Christian game in town until the Reformation. The research I did on the so-called residential schools for native American children (death rate of 60%) and the research I've done in the area of political history both convince me that that the Catholic Church secretly controls many (if not all) Protestant churches at the highest level. Your assumptions are that the Vatican doesn't know or doesn't care about a possible 1% effect. I'm sure they know about it. They have reasons for keeping techniques a secret. --- Patrick Gillam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Great discussion. Comments below. > > > --- Angela Mailander wrote: > > > > I totally agree that a path to realization is > implicit > > in the Christian tradition. There may have been > > techniques that were either kept secret so well > that > > they became lost or that were suppressed. After > all, > > there were techniques in the Platonic tradition. > > Socrates was initiated by his teacher Diotima in a > > meditative technique which was called 'practicing > > death.' And the Platonic and the neo-Platonic > > tradition merged with the emerging Christian > reframing > > of things and there was a lot of > cross-pollination. > > Moreover, Greece was aware of Indian culture. > > > > That there must have been something going on > because > > look at Matthew 6:22: > > "If therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body > > shall be full of light." > > > > That is my direct experience of the third eye. > > > > And that's Matthew, the least mystical of the four > > apostles whose gospels we have. John is the most. > > > --- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It just appears to me that the accepted > > > > > way to Realization, particularly among > > > > > Christians, is to curb the > > > > > urge for sexual indulgence. Thus, celibacy > > > > > and marriage to one person, and in that > order, > > > > > are regarded as the solution to leading a > > > > > peaceful life, or attaining higher levels of > consciousness. > > > > > > > --- Gillam wrote: > > > > What Christian faiths offer a path to > > > "Realization," John? None I've encountered. My > childhood church, > > > > the notably conservative Lutheran > Church-Missouri > > > > Synod, considers enlightenment to be an > impossible > > > > delusion. Hence the need for the external > intervention > > > > of God. > > > > > > > John again: > > > > IMO, the basic teachings of Christ offer a way > to > > > Realization, although > > > it may not be stated in the same way as in the > vedic > > > literature. > > > Christ taught through parables and actual life > > > experience that the > > > divine life is NOT so distant from relative > life. > > > In other words, one > > > does not need to die to get a taste of the > absolute. > > > We can experience > > > heaven on earth, but not in its fullness. > > Sorry, John and Angela. I enjoy reading your > thoughts, > especially your personal experiences, and I like to > think > Christianity offers spiritual insights, but I cannot > buy > the notion that Christianity (by which you appear to > > mean Catholicism) leads to, let alone actively > promotes, > self realization. If such were the case, the amount > of > time Christianity has existed and the number of > Christians that have lived would have generated more > > enlightened people than it has apparently produced. > As holobuda put it in another post in this thread: > > "The dearth in numbers of such exemplary Mystics > bolsters my > viewpoint that they arise as Flowers in a field, > independently of one- > another and there is no "secret" ongoing Tradition > of Self-Realized > Saints in the Christian tradition. Indeed, the > methods used by such > Mystics are recorded in their own words." > > Holobuda also offer this kicker: > > "if there are such secret techniques, if they are > truly > secret then they're useless!" > > I feel it's more likely that enlightened people are > attracted > to the church than the church is producing > enlightened people. > > As for John's original remark, above, that > Christianity > promotes celibacy or monogamy as ways to foster > spirituality; yes, it does, but I believe the > promotion > of what we today call "family values" has more to do > > with preserving families than it does with fostering > > self-realization. > > In my experience, the only thing about sex that gets > > in the way of knowing the Self is the tendency to > stay > up too late at night. The act itself is likely to > generate > more chi than I've felt in any meditation. > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
