Great discussion. Comments below. > --- Angela Mailander wrote: > > I totally agree that a path to realization is implicit > in the Christian tradition. There may have been > techniques that were either kept secret so well that > they became lost or that were suppressed. After all, > there were techniques in the Platonic tradition. > Socrates was initiated by his teacher Diotima in a > meditative technique which was called 'practicing > death.' And the Platonic and the neo-Platonic > tradition merged with the emerging Christian reframing > of things and there was a lot of cross-pollination. > Moreover, Greece was aware of Indian culture. > > That there must have been something going on because > look at Matthew 6:22: > "If therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body > shall be full of light." > > That is my direct experience of the third eye. > > And that's Matthew, the least mystical of the four > apostles whose gospels we have. John is the most. > --- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John wrote: > > > > > > > > It just appears to me that the accepted > > > > way to Realization, particularly among > > > > Christians, is to curb the > > > > urge for sexual indulgence. Thus, celibacy > > > > and marriage to one person, and in that order, > > > > are regarded as the solution to leading a > > > > peaceful life, or attaining higher levels of consciousness. > > > > > --- Gillam wrote: > > > What Christian faiths offer a path to > > "Realization," John? None I've encountered. My childhood church, > > > the notably conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri > > > Synod, considers enlightenment to be an impossible > > > delusion. Hence the need for the external intervention > > > of God. > >
> > John again: > > IMO, the basic teachings of Christ offer a way to > > Realization, although > > it may not be stated in the same way as in the vedic > > literature. > > Christ taught through parables and actual life > > experience that the > > divine life is NOT so distant from relative life. > > In other words, one > > does not need to die to get a taste of the absolute. > > We can experience > > heaven on earth, but not in its fullness. Sorry, John and Angela. I enjoy reading your thoughts, especially your personal experiences, and I like to think Christianity offers spiritual insights, but I cannot buy the notion that Christianity (by which you appear to mean Catholicism) leads to, let alone actively promotes, self realization. If such were the case, the amount of time Christianity has existed and the number of Christians that have lived would have generated more enlightened people than it has apparently produced. As holobuda put it in another post in this thread: "The dearth in numbers of such exemplary Mystics bolsters my viewpoint that they arise as Flowers in a field, independently of one- another and there is no "secret" ongoing Tradition of Self-Realized Saints in the Christian tradition. Indeed, the methods used by such Mystics are recorded in their own words." Holobuda also offer this kicker: "if there are such secret techniques, if they are truly secret then they're useless!" I feel it's more likely that enlightened people are attracted to the church than the church is producing enlightened people. As for John's original remark, above, that Christianity promotes celibacy or monogamy as ways to foster spirituality; yes, it does, but I believe the promotion of what we today call "family values" has more to do with preserving families than it does with fostering self-realization. In my experience, the only thing about sex that gets in the way of knowing the Self is the tendency to stay up too late at night. The act itself is likely to generate more chi than I've felt in any meditation.
