--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Akasha, great to see you back. Hope you are well.
Thanks, Vaj. Things are good. i've just been a bit busy. > On Jun 15, 2005, at 9:29 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > Ut oh Peter, now you have done it! You called CC "baby awakening". Tom > > is going to go totally ballistic! I quoted you sometime back as CC > > being "baby steps" and Tom lambsted me up and down for 3-4 posts as to > > why there was nothing "baby" about it. But with Sat Yuga and all, > > maybe things are mellower. You yourself are even making what you > > previous called "huge epistimological mistakes!" and laughing it away. > > It's funny when you see these parrotings of TMO doctrine. What's so > funny is that most aren't even aware that to a Samkhya practitioner > turiyatita (CC) *IS* the big E! Yes. And many of the vedangas (and/or their antecendents) are based on a Samkhya persepctive -- an insight that gets lost sometimes . > Really all that can be said is that > this is the POV of Mahesh Yogi (this CC opinion)--because it > certainly does not represent any lineal transmission. I am not sure I see your point. It seems to me that MMY has stated that there are multiple applicable and useful POVs, depending on what domain you are functioning. Like Newtonian physics is still used and is very practical when dealing with every day things even though one knows it is an incorrect POV when dealing with quite macro and micro things -- galaxies and sub-atomic particles. > Most hilarious is the whole > idea that there is a transition from CC to GC to UC. Discrete transition may be a simplification but experientially it seems that there is a stage when Awareness IS. My experience is that at a later point, Awareness is "discriminated" and found alive within perception, thinking and deciding. Its not a stretch that it would be natural for the projection of Awareness, remaining unadulterated by the overlays of sensual stimulation, might be found, and has occasisionally been found, also in "things". But this is not yet a common realization. However, this gives rise to the "sense" of unfoldment: Awareness IS (WAS) --> Awareness (IS-ING) --> Awareness (ALL). Though this "sense" is false in that Awareness is not changing. It is simply the discrimination of Awareness as Alive in broader domains that changes. While experientially I find humor / hilarity in this whole process, I am not sure we are laughing at the same thing. > GC or > Bhagavata-chetana is the style of enlightenment described by the > Bhagavatins. The Bhagavatins were Vaishnavite Bhaktis--devotional > practitioners from the cult of Vishnu! This is why when you study and > practice from the perspective of the Shankaracharya trad. you will NOT > find "GC" as part of any continuum of enlightenment. Yes, GC-- refined perception -- seemes to be something "outside" the realization of Awareness: Being, Doing and then BEING(ALL). Perhaps refined perception could be termed a "coincident possible attribute" of > What these represent are different POV's--different darshanas. Yes. > Advaita does show a path beyond turiyatita to videha-mukti (UC) but it ain't anything like M. claims. Can you elaborate? > The idea of 7 states of consciousness is a fabrication of M.'s > opinions. "Seven" may have been a more marketable concept than "six", > but the idea that these 7 states represent a continuum is a novelty of Mahesh. I view M. as trying to make that which had been seen as obscure concepts and POVs as more understandable. Sorting out key points and focussing just on that. Sort of like the role of analogies. While the 7-states is not literally an analogy, it is a simply story that give some understanding. The "trick" is not to stay living in the "analogy" / simplified model understanding of things, but seek a more refined fuller understanding. > > On a more serious note, do you singularly define CC as "Cessation of > > identification of consciousness with mind. End of 'I' and 'me'"? Do > > you feel "No I" is both nexcessary and sufficient to label the > > experience "CC"? Without relying on dogmatic kneejerks, it does seems > > there are additional "attributes" along with or beyond the experience > > of "No I". > Actually turiyatita or CC is said to occur with the complete > DISSOLUTION of mind. Merely ceasing to identify with the mind would > give a glimpse of "CC" perhaps, not the end result. The cessation of identification of ANYTHING makes sense experientially. Identification implies duality and requires an X and Y: X identifies with or is equivalent to Y. Awareness Alive in itself has no identification IMV(view/experience). Thats why "Self" used as a term for Awareness seems a weak term. It implies identification where identification does not exist. However, I don't understand your "no mind". You are not suggesting Permanent Vegetative State -- no brain. The subjective experience may be no "my mind". And no "monkey-mind" -- that is, the constant chatter, judgements, memories, passions of the mind are gone. But there is still a mind -- part of the "apparatus" that functions. And by mind I am refering to my understanding of "manas" which I view as being the "stage of attention" that interacts with chitta (storehouse of vasanas) and buddhi -- intellect / decider / evaluator. These and the senses, and action capabilities of the body, are all part of the "apparatus". They all exist. Nothing is anililated except identification and a sense of ownership, contolling or doing. The methods to > perform this dissolution are not taught in the TMO so therefore it is > crucial, if we are to maintain the illusion that the TM/TMSP actually > can lead to enlightenment, that other false or novel ideas be > presented. Well, since I am not interested in "enlightenment" I guess I am safe. :) But to clarify what you mean by "no mind", what are "the methods to perform this dissolution [of the "mind"]? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
