Ok, I'm going to take a step that may cross a line I probably oughten cross. Edg just posted something on BATGAP where he hints, that had he had more information on Daniel, he might have reigned in his exchanges with him a little. Or that's how I interpet it.
For me, when I read his exchanges without the benefit of sound or video, it makes a different impression. Like you might be willing to give a person the benefit of the doubt, that he might be a little more of who he implies he is. But when you add those two other elements, and hear bits and pieces of other peoples' interactions with him, a different picture emerges. That's how I see it anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" <steve.sundur@> wrote: > > > > I don't see it that way at all. That fact of the matter is, > > that we know a lot more now, than we did 24 hours ago. And > > there is no impugning of the deceased or his family. > > Right, just, in this case, impugning Edg and others who > are mourning in an "unsound" way. (Did you even read the > post??) > > > More just the the circumstances and environment surrounding > > his death, as I see it. Hopefully in this way, his death > > may be instructive somehow. > > Probably best, IMHO, to allow the folks directly affected > by his death to work it out for themselves rather than > lecturing them on how they should be viewing it while the > wound is still so fresh. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > Yesterday morning, it was all, "I feel your pain, let it > > > all hang out, I won't rag on you, this isn't a platform > > > from which to score points." > > > > > > This morning...not so much. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dan was special -- way wise beyond his age. Not that he was > > > > > a guru one would seek, but that it was he who sought -- sought > > > > > hearts to engage -- and pushed them faster into depth and clarity. > > > > > > > > The same depth and clarity that drove him to > > > > taking his own life? > > > > > > > > Edg, I *understand* that you found someone who > > > > was willing to go back and forth with you over > > > > the emotional hyperbole of spirituality, and > > > > that this made a big impression on you. I never > > > > met or interacted with the dude, and I have a > > > > somewhat different impression, based on the > > > > followup to his death, and what has been posted > > > > by him and about him. > > > > > > > > I'm seeing more of the "echo chamber effect" I > > > > wrote about earlier, back when Ravi was being > > > > touted as the latest realized being by this > > > > *same* group of discerning seers. The reaction > > > > I'm seeing on BATGAP and to some extent in some > > > > of the posts forwarded to FFL is "protect the > > > > idea that we're realized," along with an IMO > > > > unhealthy dose of "realization is by definition > > > > 100% life supporting...it's all good." > > > > > > > > Duh. The lesson one should take away from this > > > > whole sad business is IMO more along the lines > > > > of "realizations come and go, they're *not* > > > > inherently all "life-supporting," and sometimes > > > > they need *real* feedback from someone who knows > > > > the pitfalls of spiritual practice and how to > > > > deal with them. > > > > > > > > On reflection, I do *not* think that a group of > > > > amateurs dealing with confusing experiences that > > > > they share is the same thing as being in a trad- > > > > ition that has seen this sort of thing for many > > > > centuries, and has learned over those centuries > > > > which of the confusing experiences *are* really > > > > beneficial and which are not. Nothing I have read > > > > in the followups to Daniel's death leads me to > > > > believe that anyone in the satsang group or on > > > > the BATGAP forum has that kind of perspective. > > > > > > > > My points all along have been that the desire > > > > to "protect the realization" is not an inherently > > > > safe one. It "works" to create a group who can > > > > feel all cool and realized because no matter what > > > > they say to others around them, they tend to get > > > > reflected back to them a hearty "Yeah...that's > > > > some neat realization all right." But what happens > > > > when someone says something that should trigger > > > > alarm bells in the listeners, and no alarm bells > > > > go off? > > > > > > > > I am *not* trying to "assign blame" in this. I > > > > *more* than understand the sense of isolation that > > > > someone who has convinced themselves that they are > > > > "realized" enforce upon themselves. I am merely > > > > pointing out some of the dangers inherent in doing > > > > so, and the dangers of people around them *rein- > > > > forcing* possibly unsound ideas because their > > > > allegiance is still to an unsound piece of dogma: > > > > "Meditation and realization are 100% life-supporting." > > > > > > > > Things *can* and *do* "go wrong" along the Way. My > > > > point is that you're not likely to get any real > > > > feedback on whether the experiences you're caught > > > > up in and overwhelmed by are positive or negative > > > > from a group of people who are still committed to > > > > the unsound idea that all of them are positive. > > > > > > > > Just my opinion... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted this at another site: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan is an evolutionary wind at my back; he shepherds me still. > > > > > > > > > > He words still scintillate living inside my intent. > > > > > > > > > > I;ve read his words for hours today and there's not a hint of > > > > > any fading of the power with which he effortlessly touches a life. > > > > > > > > > > Not that he wrote creatively, though he did, not that his love > > > > > was angelic, though it was, not that he slogged for hours writing > > > > > to help me step into love, and he did, it is the source that > > > > > flowed through him that I can never forget, for is not the > > > > > silence of his missingness yet the best of him? > > > > > > > > > > When thoughts stop, there he is. > > > > > > > > > > Yet do I cry and cry and cry . . . his bell still tolls for me. > > > > > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <salsunshine@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> FW; > > > > > > >> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some > > > > > > >> others. this is what my perception was knowing what was going > > > > > > >> on. Had I known the last 2 months he told so many people his > > > > > > >> pain was too great and he was thinking of killing himself I > > > > > > >> would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention may > > > > > > >> have helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive > > > > > > >> and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group > > > > > > >> all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the > > > > > > >> mentor and teacher and he had no one." <end paste> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about. They > > > > > > > may never have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We > > > > > > > loved and respected Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a > > > > > > > great depth, but the group in general did not look to him as > > > > > > > mentor and teacher, and he had people he respected to whom he > > > > > > > could talk as much as he wanted to. > > > > > > > > > > > > I sure hope not, Rick. There seems to be something > > > > > > profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people > > > > > > looking to someone more than half their age as a > > > > > > "mentor and teacher," JMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
