--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltabl...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <wayback71@> wrote: > > That was an interesting response. Many cool points, especially the one about > the good guys and the "others'! Gives me a LOST flashback. > > I am not anti control. I also try to keep my eye on the things I can control > to improve my life and others. (In that order!) I believe that the otherwise > dubious AA, who adopted this prayer: > > God, grant me the serenity > To accept the things I cannot change; > Courage to change the things I can; > And wisdom to know the difference. > > is brilliant if you just drop the God part. I can just as easily ask myself > to stay clear on this distinction and manage how pissed off I am willing to > get about shit that just happens. Weather, known douchbags acting like > douchbags, my car F'ing, up don't get on the front page of my pissed off > meter. In fact my pissed off list is getting pretty short since I faced the > death of a loved one and figured out the conveyor belt we are on. (SPOILER > ALERT: it doesn't end well.) So every day I am alive starts with a big plus > and I give myself a lot of slack for the bumbling way I go about trying to > bend the world to my will. I have some pluses, I advance my pawns, I give it > the old college try, and try not to be too unkind to my dumbass for not being > a superman. Dropping the perfectionist standard of enlightenment was a big > help in my own acceptance of my flaws.
Yeah, me too - that perfectionism is a heavy burden, especially for TM teachers. Curtis wrote:And since the high and mighty are dropping like flies into the "even I am not that much of an asshole" bin, I'm spending more time whistling while I work. It seems that we are all bozos on this bus and that suits me just fine. Wayback: Good thoughts, great attitude. The conveyor belt image is, well, I guess grimly true. Basically, it sounds as if you are saying that many of the Enlightenment Industry ideas get in the way of honest living and complicate it too much. So true. I have had to drop a whole ton of spiritual baggage over the years. It's been a interesting journey, and honestly I am glad I have had the spiritual exposure. I think the question you bring up is if people really need religion and spirituality to modify or improve their behavior, or if they would be just as "good" or even better off without it. > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Another possibility, Card, is that there is > > > > no such thing as "support of Nature," and > > > > that the very concept is something made up > > > > by people who aren't comfortable with Shit > > > > Happening That They Can't Explain. > > > > > > > > In my opinion, everyone in human history has > > > > had exactly the same "support of Nature." > > > > That is, none. > > > > > > > > Shit just happens, and those who like to pose > > > > as knowing WHY shit happens make up theories > > > > like "support of Nature" to pretend they're > > > > not just as clueless as everyone else. > > > > > > Excellent point. One of the most interesting changes in my world view > > > having extracted the movement mindset was facing the loss of the illusion > > > of control over the world through my inner state. > > > > I get what you are saying. I waver between both views, and while not ever > > buying into the whole TMO thing as much as you did, I find the opposite > > view to be really uncomfortable, too. > > > > I think the idea of random, plotless, structureless life is terrifying to > > most of us. Feeling that one can control or at least influence events in > > our lives is a pretty basic need, and I think that is what this stems from. > > Since most of us assume that we can make choices in life (toast or eggs > > for breakfast? which movie to see? who to call on the phone?) -both mundane > > and more profound- that do tend to improve the happiness in life, it is > > normal to think of the same process occurring on a grander, more universal > > scale. Somehow this morphs into what i object to in the TMO and other > > similar philosophies: the whole karma thing and then the "means collect > > around sattwa" idea. This is a very nice idea if you yourself and your > > loved ones are fine and The Good Guys. It can lead to justifying all > > sorts of nasty behavior if you look at Others as nasty or bad and not > > deserving of respect. > > > > But back to the main point. Here is what I am thinking these days: It > > actually does make sense to me that things in creation have a pattern - > > since everything is a result of the prior state. And I assume that at least > > at the atomic and cellular levels of life there is a fairly predicable > > sequence of events as things unfold. Certainly when science cannot find > > that pattern, the next research involves figuring out just what is missing > > in understanding and finding that missing info so the cause and effect > > pattern can be continued. Science assumes patterns.The big leap is the > > assumption that this same orderliness continues as we move up the scale of > > creation and especially into human thinking and feeling and neurology. And > > I think it is pretty likely that even our thoughts and sense of "free will" > > are part of that automatic process. So, the sense that we have personal > > control of events and thoughts is really an illusion. I think it all just > > happens but we feel as if we are doing and choosing and controlling. So > > the actuality is that we have no control at all over life. But that does > > not have to mean that there is not some sort of pattern to it all, even if > > it is pure scientific cause and effect happening on zillions of levels at a > > time in all of creation. > > > > What is intriguing is the intense sense of control, an example of which is > > below in the Swami G interview. She went from our typical human wanting to > > control and believing in some degree of control, to absolutely and clearly > > feeling that she was controlling nature and events far removed from her > > personal sphere of influence. I have had a few times like that - one just > > after the 6 month course when for about a week I felt I could control the > > flow of interactions between people at work in the office! Is this the > > opposite of the supposedly Enlightened state where one witnesses things as > > flowing without personal involvement, or what? Maybe it is the state of > > witnessing while at the same time wanting to be in control out of old > > habit? And then the witnessing itself feels like controlling what is going > > to happen anyway? Argh.......Here I am trying to slap a pattern on perhaps > > random events!!! Enough for a Sunday morning. > > > > > > . > > The means collecting around sattwa, my subtlest impulse of desire being > > fulfilled by "nature." That last claim was actually on my MIU diploma. > > > > > > In Swami G's Batgap interview she claims to have had experiences of > > > influencing the weather among her many miracles. The burden of > > > maintaining this grandiose view of one's relationship with the world > > > involves getting others to buy in. If you can get enough people to buy > > > in, jackpot, you are a guru and other people pay your bills. > > > > > > Meanwhile the human condition is much more humble. > > > > > > "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, > > > Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." > > > > > > We know so little, and front'n isn't helping us improve that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > One of the "problems" might be that Mrs. Palin, like Hitler, could > > > > > have, for some peculiar reason, "the support of Nature", at least > > > > > for a while. > > > > > > > > > > In Hitler's case one of the "proofs" is that he seemed to survive > > > > > several (seventeen?) assassination attempts? > > > > > > > > > >
