--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <wayback71@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your reply. I have nothing to say about it > > > because, after all, what is there to say? It was your > > > subjective experience and thus essentially valid; there > > > is nothing I or anyone can say about a subjective exper- > > > ience other than "That's cool," or "Whatever." :-) > > > > > > As I said, from my side I never experienced anything > > > similar with him. Once, in fact, in Fiuggi, I was > > > curious as to whether he'd notice anything different > > > in *my* SOC because I'd been witnessing 24/7 for about > > > a week, my subjective experience pretty much mapping > > > one to one to his descriptions of CC. As it turned out, > > > at the height of this experience he was giving advanced > > > techniques and I got to go up and sit by his side, > > > literally at his feet, and have him spend a few minutes > > > with me one on one, talking to me first and then giving > > > me the advanced technique. He didn't notice a thing. > > > > > > From my side, I didn't notice any change between full- > > > on witnessing and that profound, everpresent silence > > > you spoke of before while sitting a foot away from him, > > > or during, or after. No effect whatsoever, and as I said, > > > he didn't notice any change in my SOC from his side. > > > There was a line of others waiting for their techniques > > > so I didn't bother him with any questions at that time, > > > and before I had a chance to do so the experiences had > > > faded and my questions and any "confirmation" from him > > > would have been irrelevant. > > > > > > I've actually heard the same experience from others. > > > At the height of their highest experiences, mapping > > > from their perspective one to one to his descriptions > > > of CC, they got to be close to Maharishi and he never > > > noticed. So much for the notion of "like knows like." > > > Either that or he really didn't care enough about his > > > students to notice them, period. Or any other "explan- > > > ation" you prefer. > > > > I agree - this is odd, to say the least - that your Master > > (at the time) would not say something to you quietly just > > to acknowledge the experience you were having. > > Thank you again for yet another thoughtful reply. Yes, > that thought occurred to me, even at the time. And yet. > And yet I was at that point -- 5 months into "rounding" > and not yet made a TM teacher -- such a TB that I found > ways to "write off" this experience as Not Particularly > Significant. I mean, what could be significant about it? > One of his students having subjectively realized the goal > he'd been selling all this time? Even if the student was > just experiencing "early on" experiences of the enlight- > enment process and not fully established in CC, if you > were a Maha Rishi, shouldn't you have noticed? > > And yet. At the time, I was such a TB that I felt that > any fault -- if there was one -- had to be mine. Here I > was, experiencing word-for-word the goal that he'd sold > me five years earlier. What sweat off his balls was that, > I told myself. He has far larger concerns. > > Such is youth. :-) > > > It never occurred to me before that MMY seemed not to > > talk to people one on one about their experiences. > > It occurred to me, early on, because I had experienced it. > > > When I had one of my more major experiences, I was late to > > get to the lecture hall in Humboldt (could not figure out > > how to come out of meditation since I thought I had to > > cause the experience to end before opening my eyes! > > Finally just gave up, opened my eyes, and went to the > > cafeteria anyway). So I was late to dinner and then > > showed up at the lecture hall about 15 minutes into the > > talk he was giving. I was still having the experience, > > just the beginning of a fade. I walked in the door way > > at the back of this huge hall, and it seemed to me that > > just as I entered MMY turned his head and looked right > > over at me, right in the eye and nodded - I felt he > > knew exactly what I was experiencing and nodded to say > > so. That could have all been wishful thinking. But I > > continue to think he knew. > > And I, for one, am not going to dispute it. > > This, for me, is a fundamental part of the wonder of the > spiritual path. What significance do we give our personal, > subjective experiences? Do we consider them true, because > we experienced them, or even Truth, because We experienced > them, or are they just more data in the input queue of our > internal AI servers? > > I had similar experiences with Rama, although never with > Maharishi. I'd walk into a room not having seen him in a > week or so and during that time I'd gone through Major > Changes and subjectively felt as if I were glowing like > a 10,000 watt light bulb. ( Unecological, I admit, but the > best metaphor I could think up on the spur of the moment. :-) > And he'd notice. Sometimes he'd even come up to me after > the meeting and talk to me about it, asking "What have you > been up to that has you glowing so brightly?" > > But did that "mean" anything? Not unless you think that > the Rama guy knew WTF he was talking about. :-) > > My favorite such moment, just as a suddenly-triggered- > memory aside, took place in Amsterdam. Me and a bunch of > other guys had gone there to teach meditation, for free. > The idea was that we would go and offer free courses in > meditation, see who came, and then after a few months > he'd come over and give a big public talk. > > So, having the liberty to do so, I went over to Amsterdam > for a few weeks, planning to spend the first week teach- > ing before he arrived for his talk and spend the two weeks > afterwards teaching some more. As it turned out, other > students had the same idea about the "week before," and > they wanted to teach, too. I graciously stepped aside and > allowed them to do so, because I knew that I'd still be > in Amsterdam, and thus able to do some teaching, for a > couple of weeks after they left. > > This left me with not a whole fucking lot to do there for > that first week but wander around and get to know Amsterdam. > Good Thing or Big Mistake for me karmically. My life has > never been the same since. > > Anyway, the talk around the "teaching apartment," after the > students had gone home, was often -- among this group of > pseudo-celibate guys -- "Who is going to be the first to > hit the Red Light District?" I listened to their raps about > this but to tell the truth wasn't all that interested because > I got over my Red Light District fetish when I was 15. I > waited until they'd finished and then said, "The real ques- > tion is who is going to be the first person to hit the > coffeehouses and smoke some Amsterweed?" > > Dead silence. You could have heard a flea fart. :-) > > But then I raised my hand, and broke the silence. Everybody > laughed, because they thought I was making a joke. > > But that's exactly what I did. The next day I found a cool > coffeehouse, bought a big fuckin' joint of a brand of > Amsterweed called -- no shit -- Laughing Buddha, and > inhaled my first puff of that herb since the late Sixties. > > And it was good. :-) > > I thoroughly enjoyed having my assemblage point shifted > in a major way by the improvements that the Dutch had made > to lowly marijuana. :-) > > The point, and the relevance to the above stories about > running into your spiritual teacher after or during a cool > period of time for you subjectively, is that after the week > was up I wound up sitting across a table from Rama at the > five-star hotel he was staying at. It was just me, one > other student, and Rama. > > As you might imagine, I was sitting there thinking, "What > if he can tell that I've been toking up every night? What > will he say? What will he do?" > > He looked at me, not having seem me for a few weeks, and > said, "This place agrees with you. I haven't seen you > this happy and this full of light in years." > > Go figure. Go fuckin' figure. >
I know. We were so young then that we did not have the simple wisdom to ask the obvious questions, like what do you make of my current experiences (to MMY), or how can this be if I have been smoking dope for the past week? And we were settled into a mode of thinking that shied away from being so direct and even thinking like that (at least I was) and we were young and respecting our older revered teachers. I heard from others at the time that Rama was able to do these incredible things witnessed by hundreds, not just a few. How in the world do you explain that and then have him say what he did to you? Yeah, go figure sums it up.
