--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "richardatrwilliamsdotus" <richard@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > curtisdeltablues: > > > Your response really makes me think Richard. > > > > > > I am reading a book that explores this question > > > from a slightly different angle. It is called, > > > The Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the > > > power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley. > > > > > Thanks for the info. > > > > Apparently, there's no difference between being > > 'enlightened' and being un-enlightened, except for > > one's POV. I first started thinking about this after > > reading some of the old Zen koans or riddles. Dogen, > > the founder of the Soto Zen sect in Japan, compiled > > many koans in the Shobogenzo. > > > > According to Shunryu Suzuki, a Soto master, the main > > practice of Zen is 'just sitting'. This just sitting > > IS enlightenment. That's it! > > Very interesting. I am not sure. I think the term enlightenment is one of > those emotionally laden terms like "God" that actually covers many different > states of mind. If we just isolate the state of awareness itself from all > the magical claims then I can see the case for it being a shift of attention. > > But it also occurs to me that intense practice of meditation does shift your > attention so that it can stay that way pretty persistently. And it wouldn't > surprise me if it has a physical shift of how the brain is communicating with > itself. I suspect that long meditation practice can adjust how the brain > functions between its parts, and this has profound implications for our sense > of self which is created by this interaction. (I know reductionism again, but > there it is.)
Enlightenment is a loaded term. There is a shift of experience. Everything remains the same. Nothing happens. Everything is like it was before, even before one started on a path. Seeking stops. What in hell is going to happen next? The seeking was an illusion. Except when we are seeking, we think there is some truth to what we are anticipating. Anticipation has nothing to do with being here and now. That is why we are not here and now. You cannot make a mood of this. It will be a surprise, unanticipated. Learning to live with this experience is a whole new world, because everything you thought it was going to be was not what it is. Realisation is just another passing moment, replaced by whatever is going on. > > You are not going to get any more enlightenment than > > you are going to get. So, just stop striving, just > > Be - be aware of being aware. > > We have an odd agreement in this phrase Richard. I like to say that I am as > enlightened up as I need to be to enjoy my life. I'm not hungry for more of > an internal shift. From moment to moment I might want to tweak it a bit and > use meditation and exercise as one of the tools. I can imagine how you might > identify with this term as useful, even though it doesn't match my view of > myself. > > And there is a serious problem I see with the lack of distinction between > heightened states of awareness and mental problems. We are seeing that issue > being played out on this board sometimes. And it is no service to the person > being tormented to egg their delusions on. > > But the kind of quiet state of awareness shift you seem to be describing does > have some real appeal for me as a POV. I don't know how it grew into so much > baggage and hype though. What is with all of that sidhis nonsense? > > > > > A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. > > Please teach me.' > > > > Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice?' > > > > The monk replied: 'I have eaten.' > > > > Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.' > > > > At that moment the monk was enlightened! > > I had a friend who went to one of those Western Advaita guys to "sit" for a > week. Sam Harris is a fan of this. In time his mind kind of wound down and > he was aware of whatever state it was that this guy was guiding them all to, > some version of ineffable wholeness blah de blah de blah. When I am in the > middle of a lake in my kayak I shift into something that might use these > words. Or right now if I notice it. But to have it really dominate and push > all the other activity out takes a bit of dedication and practice. But is it > really so freak'n great that it warrants that time? It has been a long time > since I defined my life in terms of internal states. Now I am interested in > focusing whatever state I have in creative expression. > > I was talking with a teacher the other day who is collaborating on a course > for teachers with me about how I used to really notice having to get up early > as we did for this meeting. It used to affect my sense of who I was even, I > just couldn't be as aware. Now we both agreed that it makes almost no > difference to our functioning to be tired. We just show up and start > chopping. And it isn't that we were claiming some state of enlightenment, we > looked at it in terms of one of the bennies of getting older. I was such a > wimp as a young man, always fussing about my state of consciousness and my > need to cultivate it with lots of whatever. But a lot of it is my shift of > attention, I really don't care what "awareness" I have while I chop. > > So I can relate to your quotes and POV. I haven't integrated it with all the > possible variations of what we are lumping into with the word > "enlightenment". But I think you are on to something important here and will > read anything else you care to write about it. > > > > > > > > > > Joshu Washes the Bowl: > > http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/7.html > > > > Reccomended reading: > > > > 'The Zen Experience' > > by Thomas Hoover > > New American Library, 1980 > > http://tinyurl.com/d7allmz > > > > "The best history of Zen ever written." - Library Journal > > >
