Judy: According to Maharishi and according to tradition this [losing Unity Consciousness] is not possible. In this case it wasn't fully established.
Zarzari: Either that or it never happened in the first place. That is, from everything that has been reported here that I've read, the entire episode sounds like a classic case of NPD/hypomania augmented by moodmaking and a desire to become the focus of other people's attention. Vaj: There's more evidence to suggest this, as a common 'bragging claim' of Carlsen followers was the fact that he wrote "The Discovery of Grace" with commentary (I believe, or one of his tomes) by staying up all night and simply dictating it, in one go. To us rabid TMers this was just more evidence of "enlightenment" when, in 20/20 retrospect it was more evidence of hypomania run amuck. Robin: There is no "commentary" in The Discovery of Grace. And I never dictated anything. I wrote in a state of inspiration, but always alone. It felt (in writing anything while in Unity) as if this must have been Maharishi's experience of writing The Science of Being and Art of Living. Everything was written in longhand. And the writing was always very neat. I consider those books an indictment of my enlightenmentthat is to say, proof of the final non-objective (not congruent with reality) status of my Unity Consciousness. Zarzari: I've seen it happen before to other "gurus" who set up shop based on self-announced (and never verfied, even by their own teachers) "enlightenment." Vaj: While some passing remarks of Maheshiji were at first used to prop up his claim of "Unity", later this was not enough. This culminated in RWC's court case against M. where it was required that M. respond on tape declaring or denying RWC's "enlightenment. This was done and a tape was delivered to the court in Ottumwa, as with baited breath they awaited the final verdict, - which consisted of Maheshiji grunting a "noew" to the tape recorder. Robin: Maharishi summoned me to Seelisberg several months after acting out my meta-theatre of enlightenment and 'individuation'. There I talked to him personally, and while he did not exactly say: Go to it, Robin Boy! he nevertheless said nothing that would indicate that I should attempt to stop what I was doing. About six months later he sent one of his secretaries to observe and reflect upon what was going on among the TM teachers in the city where I was acting out my role as the enlightened man, and causing such fierce controversy among the teachers there. Once again there was no move to inhibit me in what I was doing. Maharishi's secretary stayed at the same residence where I and a number of initiators were living. We got along famously. There were other phone calls from Seelisberg, other messages from Maharishimeanwhile the show went on. Without any formal interference whatsoever from Maharishi. He had seven years in which to put a stop to this enlightenment nonsense, and he scrupulously withheld any censorious comments. I forced him to confess not only the validity of my enlightenment, but evenhere is where I went too far [not to say that I was in a hallucinatory state to begin withbut then, so was Maharishi himself]the superiority of my own version of the Sidhis. His back was up against the wall, and he did indeed make these gruff sounds nixing my enlightenment and my innovative updating of the Sidhis. But the ambiguity surrounding all this was too obvious. There was no sense of triumph for the MIU establishment; nor was there any sense of having learned Maharishi's true estimate of my enlightenment. It was all very murky, and I just continued to do what I was doing. Vaj: So the claim from his guru is that "no, he was not enlightened". Robin: There was nevereven in the mind of Bevan, who played the audio tape of Maharishi in court that dayany clear cut evidence that actually altered anyone's understanding of what was going on. Maharishi it is true, did not endorse me as I was certain he would; but at the same time his actual words on that tape did nothing to clarify or resolve anything. As everyone realized who heard the tape or subsequently found out about its contents. Vaj: His behaviors continued to escalate and I believe, to this very day, if RWC sets foot in the state of Iowa, he would be detained for 40 days in the Jefferson Co. prison - possibly longer, since he skipped off to Victoria to escape his fate. Robin: There is a complex legal history to all of what followed after Maharishi's audio tape. Which included the conscious ignoring of the ruling that I must not hold my seminars within a certain geographically defined area deemed by the judge to constitute a violation of the territorial rights of MIU. I was found in contempt of court; there was an appeal. The contempt of court ruling was narrowly upheld, and the legal consequence of this was that I should be detained in the manner in which Vaj has described here. Plus pay court costs. All this occurred within the inexorable spontaneity of my experience of a cosmic drama, over which I had no sayeven in my own actions [I have discussed this principle before in various posts]. I was a pure witness to all that was happening around me. This is what it is like to be in Unity Consciousness. Zarzari: The thing that causes me to believe in this theory is the fact that RWC refuses to even consider it, even as a possibility. *His* subjective view is the only possible explanation. That's pretty much classic NPD/hypomania. Robin: Judy has done a pretty good job of demolishing this diagnosis. Zarzari, right from the beginning when you came to post at FFL you had an intense bias; you waited until taking your leave of absence, to come out with it directly; but it was always there in everything you wrote. You have escaped detection in this regard, for your motives were always under a compulsion which would vitiate any claims of fairness or objectivity in this matter. You were only about saying what you finally said: this MZ guy, he is a nutcase. Interesting that the credibility of Turq immediately trumped everything that Judy had been explaining to you: in that moment you revealed your uncontrollable agenda. You have impeached yourself, zarzari. Vaj: Yep. Robin: One of Vaj's more authoritative remarks. Carries with it the serene and magisterial disinterestedness which reflects how active and dominant is the good conscience of our pal Vaj. Vaj: I wonder what his mother Norah - an esteemed and groundbreaking Ph.D. psychologist - would have said? I cannot help hear her voice in the psychobabble of Robin interspersed in his lingo back then. But if IIRC, she did not approve. She may have even been declared "demonic" - a certain, real shunning for anyone in the World Teacher Seminar. She left this world however in 2000, so we may not ever know, but it's an interesting part of the RWC story: boy raised by glass ceiling breaking female psychologist. Robin: All of this is simply ridiculous. Vaj attempts to do a striptease with respect to the incomplete and fragmentary and desultoryand often falseinformation he has about this Robin guy. But when he starts to tease us, we soon discoverthis admittedly is an intuitionhe is a eunuch, so there really is nothing to get aroused about: he is sexually irrelevant. The idea of bringing in one's deceased mother in order to score points: how gauche and morally grotesque is this? But Vaj, he knows no shame. He is the would-be Wikipedia for Robin; but his facts are all askew and his perspective fatally incoherent. He knows much less about me than he knows about being a TM initiator. I categorically reject the context within which he presents his unreliable information about me. Walter Mitty archivist and fantasist to the very end. Vaj: And I wonder how many present day psychologists she inspired? Perhaps many. IMO, Dr. Norah Carlsen, Ph.D. is the more interesting story I'd like to hear. My belated condolences on the passing of this incredible woman. Robin: Vaj: will you just shut up about my mother? You know nothing about her. You know nothing about me. You never met me. You are a victim of a disturbing obsession, and I wish you would get over it. There are standards of decency and taste, Vaj: You are bereft of what is required as the most minimal sense of discretion in order to have a civil and civilized conversation with an adult human being. I wish you would stop it. What can I do to touch your conscience, Vaj? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@...> wrote: > > > On Dec 26, 2011, at 7:12 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > > According to Maharishi and according to tradition this > > > [losing Unity Consciousness] is not possible. In this > > > case it wasn't fully established. > > > > Either that or it never happened in the first place. > > > > That is, from everything that has been reported here > > that I've read, the entire episode sounds like a > > classic case of NPD/hypmania augmented by moodmaking > > and a desire to become the focus of other people's > > attention. > > There's more evidence to suggest this, as a common 'bragging claim' > of Carlsen followers was the fact that he wrote "The Discovery of > Grace" with commentary (I believe, or one of his tomes) by staying up > all night and simply dictating it, in one go. To us rabid TMers this > was just more evidence of "enlightenment" when, in 20/20 retrospect > it was more evidence of hypomania run amuck. > > > I've seen it happen before to other "gurus" who set > > up shop based on self-announced (and never verfied, > > even by their own teachers) "enlightenment." > > While some passing remarks of Maheshiji were at first used to prop up > his claim of "Unity", later this was not enough. This culminated in > RWC's court case against M. where it was required that M. respond on > tape declaring or denying RWC's "enlightenment. This was done and a > tape was delivered to the court in Ottumwa, as with baited breath > they awaited the final verdict, - which consisted of Maheshiji > grunting a "noew" to the tape recorder. > > So the claim from his guru is that "no, he was not enlightened". > > His behaviors continued to escalate and I believe, to this very day, > if RWC sets foot in the state of Iowa, he would be detained for 40 > days in the Jefferson Co. prison - possibly longer, since he skipped > off to Victoria to escape his fate. > > > The thing that causes me to believe in this theory > > is the fact that RWC refuses to even consider it, > > even as a possibility. *His* subjective view is the > > only possible explanation. That's pretty much classic > > NPD/hypomania. > > Yep. > > I wonder what his mother Norah - an esteemed and groundbreaking Ph.D. > psychologist - would have said? I cannot help hear her voice in the > psychobabble of Robin interspersed in his lingo back then. But if > IIRC, she did not approve. She may have even been declared "demonic" > - a certain, real shunning for anyone in the World Teacher Seminar. > She left this world however in 2000, so we may not ever know, but > it's an interesting part of the RWC story: boy raised by glass > ceiling breaking female psychologist. > > And I wonder how many present day psychologists she inspired? Perhaps > many. IMO, Dr. Norah Carlsen, Ph.D. is the more interesting story I'd > like to hear. My belated condolences on the passing of this > incredible woman. >
