Just as commentary, compare this post: > Sal, IMHO, is a bully, an exceptionally nasty one, and a > dishonest one at that (as you yourself have reason to know, > Steve). If she couldn't deal with getting a taste of her > own medicine from me, maybe she'll have learned something > from that. Hopefully her hypothetical therapist will help > her recognize it's not OK for her to gratuitously take out > her own private hurts, whatever they may be, on other > people.
to a post made by the same FFL member, less than a month ago in post #302968: > I wouldn't be in favor of legislating it, but IMHO FFL > would be a better, more enjoyable place, and its > discussions more interesting and productive, if we all > would refrain from personal attacks against each other, > if we could express our disagreements without being > disagreeable, in Obama's phrase. > Wouldn't hurt if we all made an effort to be as truthful > as we possibly can, either. Which poster was "right," and which "wrong?" The debate should prove interesting, because after all: > Yes, I usually double down when I'm right and someone > maliciously tries to pretend otherwise. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > Middle School last week after presenting the school with > > > > > an assembly concerning bullying and creating a culture of > > > > > respect in a school. She told me that because of the > > > > > focus on bullying today, students are misusing the term, > > > > > as you have here, > > > > > > > > I don't know whether students are "misusing the term," but > > > > I wasn't. Check Mr. Dictionary, please. > > > > > > > > I suspect the principal has adopted the "power differential" > > > > sense of the term because it serves her purposes in educating > > > > the children. > > > > > > No, it is a part of all the definitions I read, Websters' > > > for example. Do you think we can't look things up too? > > > > I can't decide whether this is a tactic--pretending that I > > didn't just get done saying "Check Mr. Dictionary, please" > > five lines above and hoping nobody else will notice--or > > whether you're losing the ability to keep track of what > > you read. > > I checked many definitions of the term when I designed my course including > over a dozen books on the subject. I am familiar with the term in detail and > you are misusing it as a way to make Sal look bad. It also neuters an > important term following your absurd assertion that a power differential is > not key. > > > > > "Webster's," by the way, has long since become a generic > > term; any publisher can use it for their dictionary. It > > no longer carries any special authority. > > > > The Merriam Webster Collegiate* Dictionary, 11th edition, > > has this definition: > > > > "a blustering browbeating person; especially: one > > habitually cruel to others who are weaker." > > > > "Especially" does not mean "limited to." > > The definition of browbeating includes "intimidation" because it also rests > on an inequality of power to be meaningful. "Especially" means in particular, > to help distinguish this word's meanings from others. In other words they > are defining the term in terms of its reliance on the other person being > weaker. > > But all this is bluff and bluster parsing on your part. You know that you > were using the term to make Sal look worse than if she was just being > sarcastic, you were implying that she was doing something that we all sense > is unfair, bullying. Or would you be comfortable with a claim that Robin's > long criticisms of me were an act of bullying on his part? Do you bully > Barry in your long castigation exercises here? > > The meaningfulness of the term relies on the unequal nature of the > relationship and therefore Sal never bullied anyone here, you never bullied > anyone here, because we are all equal and cannot bully each other here. > > > > > > The verb "to bully" is defined thus: > > > > "1: to treat abusively; 2: to affect by means of force > > or coercion; intransitive verb: to use browbeating > > language or behavior: BLUSTER" > > > > ----- > > * To save you time and embarrassment, I'll point out > > that "Collegiate" in the title does not mean "dumbed > > down." The M-W Collegiate is the one used by most book > > publishers and is considered among the most authoritative. > > I am familiar. > > > > ----- > > > > Of course the "power differential" notion is *part of* > > most definitions, but it's usually in the "especially" > > sense, i.e., the term "bully" does not *require* that > > a power differential exist. > > > Just if you want the term to be meaningfully distinguished from other > concepts. If you are arguing that blibbity blab is the same as blibbity blimp > then you have left a rational discussion. The word has a meaning and you > purposefully misapplied it to make her look worse. Now your dancing is > getting comical and I appreciate that. > > > > > > But more importantly, there is a whole body of knowledge about > > > bullying behavior that I am referencing. There is no use of > > > the term in a social situations that doesn't include this > > > important piece. You know this, which is why you chose the > > > term as adding more inappropriate drama to your charge. > > > > Well, actually, I know to the contrary. And "inappropriate > > drama" is not the best way to make one's case, so it's not > > an approach I'd be likely to take. > > > Nice dodge of the whole body of knowledge about bullying that goes beyond the > words of the definition to make sure people don't misunderstand its meaning > and misuse it as you have. > > And yes, the drama of the word was inappropriate because it is inaccurate and > misleading. Sal never bullied anyone here. > > > > > <snip> > > > > > What you are mischaracterizing as bullying is your judgement > > > > > that Sal was being unfriendly to others maybe. > > > > > > > > No, I meant "bullying" in the more general sense of the term. > > > > > > All the definitions I have read contain the power differential > > > as a part of what defines it as bullying. You have to go to > > > uncommon usage to find examples of it being used any other way. > > > > Quite possibly in the social sciences or psychology context, > > but in common parlance the term frequently does not involve > > the power differential component. > > In common parlance it is used in situations where someone has power over > another person. Equals cannot bully each other. They are doing something > else. > > > > > > > > (In the context of your use of the term "stupid, stupid Sal" > > > > > exactly one kajillion times that seems a bit hypocritical.) > > > > > > > > You seem to have a lot of trouble grasping the "taste of > > > > one's own medicine" concept. > > > > > > I understand how you are using it. When you do it, it is a > > > taste of ..., when others do it is hypocrisy. > > > > Um, no, it isn't. You do not, in fact, understand how I'm > > using it. Or rather, you've decided you'll impose your own > > context even though you know it's not the same as mine. > > That's just what you *do*, attempt to erase all other > > contexts and substitute your own, as if the others never > > existed. > > Well the term bully has a meaning beyond my "context". And I don't buy your > justification for maligning Sal in her absence with an unfair term. Bullies > are really bad because they are exploiting weakness in someone. It is not the > same as equals here mixing it up as we do. It was a character charge that > was uncalled for so I challenged it. I had no idea you would actually go the > definition route and then post the definition that proves my point for me! > > All to avoid admitting that your hyperbole got out of hand on poor Sal. You > know poor stupid Sal...mmmm....perhaps given your view of her it was you > doing the bullying of her? Taking advantage of the poor thing with your > superior intelligence and bullying her? > > No, I think you hate Sal because she was one of the tersest writers here in > calling you on your games. > > > > > > > > I might characterize her as being bitingly sarcastic, and you > > > > > are welcome to say that she was some other version of poopy > > > > > pants, but she was not a bully here. > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that the one person who actually did try to > > > > > gain some technological leverage over others here, and got > > > > > bounced for it, never earned your use of the term. > > > > > > > > "Technological leverage"? No idea what you're talking about. > > > > > > Flooding search engines and outing people oneline. > > > > Still don't get it, sorry. You mean because he used > > technology to make posts here? Since we all do that, > > what's the distinction you're trying to make? > > I know that I am not going to get through here if the term "flooding search > engines" doesn't work. There is technical knowledge involved in how they > work to allow them to be used to actually hurt someone beyond the confines of > this group. > > > > > <snip> > > > > > Since you know the distinctions that define this term, I can > > > > > only conclude that you are unfairly loading your language to > > > > > make it seem as if she was actually capable of violating > > > > > someone in a lower power position. > > > > > > > > Actually, you are pretending an optional distinction > > > No, optional distinctions in dictionaries are specified as such. You are > avoiding the defining characteristic to avoid being called on your attempt to > make Sal look worse. You are unable to own your agenda so you are spinning > and spinning, hoping I will tire. > > > > > > is mandatory in an attempt to make me wrong. I'm sure > > > > you're familiar with the term "cyberbullying." There > > > > aren't many instances of "power differentials" in > > > > cyberspace, but the term is commonly used to refer to > > > > peer-to-peer interaction. > > > > > > Cyberbullying would be another mischaracterization of Sal's > > > behavior if you used it for her. The power differential in > > > this case is flooding social interaction groups with negative > > > material about someone. > > > > That's one kind of cyberbullying. And to call "flooding" a > > matter of "power differential" is just really empty spin. > > It depends on the context and outcome. In this case it was leveraging > technical knowledge into an attempt to have malice go beyond this board. > Fortunately for me the power balance was really in the hands of the > moderators who keep us all on a level playing field as best they can. Rick > and the moderators are the only ones here that could be accused of bullying. > Hear that Rick, I'm watching you buddy! > > > > > > It is not a term properly used in the kind of interactions > > > we have here. > > > > Of course, that wasn't my point. Nice sidestep. > > > > > > One might, however, make a case for the creation on > > > > forums like FFL of ad hoc power differentials via a > > > > person's alliance with a clique of the more forceful, > > > > prominent posters. In that sense, Sal's alliance with > > > > Barry's clique could be said to create a power > > > > differential between her and many of the folks she > > > > habitually beat up on who are not so allied. > > > > > > This is not a term used for adults for good reason. We > > > don't have to be a part of this social group, we can just > > > leave. Our income is not dependent on it and we are under > > > no obligation to stay as kids are in schools where this > > > behavior occurs. Now you are attempting to ruin the > > > important distinctions of another term to avoid just > > > copping to your misuse. > > > > Now you've spun your way into outer space, Curtis. What > > you've done is to create your own definition narrowly > > tailored so it doesn't apply to Sal, and then accused *me* > > of misusing it. Sorry, doesn't fly. > > > No, all the definitions, including the one you posted, are contingent on the > concept of power differential. It is the keystone of the use of the term in > every context it is used that I know of. And you knew this which is why you > accused Sal of it. It looked very unflattering, as if she would take > advantage of another person's weakness in the way a bully does. It was a > cheap trick, and in your parsing is becoming increasingly pathetic. Actual > bullying is a serious injustice. What people do here with each other is > mouth off. It is not bullying nor can it be. > > > > > > > > This would be much worse than just letting someone have it > > > > > here. It adds an element of drama to a fairly common > > > > > situation in an attempt to spin it as more than that. > > > > > > > > As usual, Curtis, the spinning is all yours. Nice try, > > > > no cigar. > > > > > > Sal never bullied anyone here. Your use of the term has > > > been called out. > > > > Sal has consistently been a bully here, and the numerous > > flaws in your exceedingly lame attempt to attack me have > > been called out. > > So define it for us so we know how to distinguish what Sal did from what you > do Judy. Do we all bully each other here? Who bullies here and who does not > bully? Lets see how you consistently apply this term and what you are > conveying by it if you insist you don't mean an exploitation of a power > differential. The last time I saw this term used here it was to accuse Barry > of bullying Robin. I objected to is misuse then also. > > > > > > The fact that you would double down could have been predicted. > > > > Yes, I usually double down when I'm right and someone > > maliciously tries to pretend otherwise. > > > "maliciously"...yeah, so answer the questions right above and lets see. > > > > > > > >
