--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater <no_reply@...> wrote: > > Hi Barry! I'll try and answer some of your queries because I > think there are some interesting and valid ones here.
Thank you. I will impart to you the corresponding respect of replying to your replies in real time, as I first read them. Be warned. :-) This makes it more fun for me. YMMV. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:46 AM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ah, but I think you confuse moodmaker with someone who could > > > > > appear egotistical, even a megalomaniac. > > > > > > > > I was tapping into his obvious use of drama and the need to > > > > be both director and actor. Draaahma-maker = Moodmaker. > > > > > > No, they both have "maker"on the end but they are not equating > > > for me. And I am not sure he created drama, I think he tapped > > > into where life could be dramatic if you stirred the pot enough. > > > > > > > > > I believe his sentimentality was actually sincerity, as > > > > > misguided about the movement as it may or may not have been. > > > > > I thought it was rather noble actually, his desire to uphold > > > > > what he felt was the best of who MMY was and what the Movement > > > > > could have stood for. So there was an element of > > > > > sentimentality, because in the end the whole thing didn't > > > > > quite pan out with regard to MMY or even Robin's > > > > > enlightenment... > > > > Not to mention "in terms of reality." :-) > > Oh, reality. Such a subjective and impossible-to-absolutely-define > concept. I don't actually see it as that difficult to define. Reality is that which, after you die and cease to exist as an egoic entity, persists. Do you disagree? :-) > Many philosophers with far greater minds than yours or mine > have given it a shot and as far as I am concerned the verdict > hasn't appeared yet. For every individual reality is different. > If you have an ultimate definition for what it is in any one > moment let me know. All I could possibly speak about is what > is reality for me. > > > > > > > ...but his heart was in the right place.You have to > > > > > admit he did believe in what he was doing and some of that > > > > > was not to rip things apart with regard to TM but to produce > > > > > a truer version of it. Not really what I would call a > > > > > moodmaker. More like a misguided warrior. > > > > With all due respect, Ann, what this sounds like to me > > is a bunch of moodmaking on *your* part, to "color" your > > memories such that *you* feel "noble." > > Interesting that it comes across like this because this is > not what I am about. I *get* that. Why I am commenting is that you're coming across as if that *was* what you were about. > First of all, what Robin did or did not do during my time around > him doesn't reflect the slightest on me, what I was hoping for > or what I believed. He was pretty much guiding the ship and we > were all tossed about, including him. So you abdicate all responsibility for walking up the plank and boarding that ship? Just asking. > Nobility is the least of it. I didn't give a dang about his > "enlightenment", the movement, TM or any of the other spiritual > trappings. I thought he was a wonderful shit disturbing rebel > with interesting ideas, he was attractive, smart and there was > never a dull moment around him (if you don't count the chanting > and manifestations). Cool. This is the most "real" I have yet heard you speak about your time with Robin on this forum. That's what I have been after. I can identify. Really. The times I spent hanging with the weirdass Rama guy back in his "early days" were COOL. I wouldn't trade them for *anything*. On the other hand, I wouldn't repeat them for anything. :-) > I was kind of an oddball in the group in this way. I > never believed he was going to get me to enlightenment, I could > barely sit long enough to meditate let alone devote myself to > becoming a TM teacher or following other gurus, I had way more > important things to do and there was no "cause" for me - this > was just a really cool adventure. And adventure is preferable to the same olde same olde daily grind. I get it. > Part of the problem Barry, is that you don't know me at all. > That is not your fault. How could you? Your comments sometimes > entertain me because when you speak about me it is like I am > reading about somebody else. And you don't perceive that as a gift? :-) > I kind of wish we could spend a week together, you would be > surprised, I don't resemble who you describe here, trust me > on this. No. I really can't. You have so far given me no reason to do so. I am seeking to rectify this. > To me nobility is an old fashioned term that doesn't apply > to anything in this world except perhaps a highly schooled > horse performing effortlessly at Grand Prix. I certainly has > nothing to do with my life or how I would ever classify myself. Funny. I think nobility has to do with how each of us handles each and every moment of our daily lives. > > Another interpretation of the events you are creating a > > mood about is that you were just sucked into the psychic > > field of a charismatic narcissist, > > I was definitely attracted to this charismatic narcissist > alright - on lots of levels. > > > and now decades later > > you're still trying to "ennoble" it and make it sound > > different, so that you don't have to deal with the strong > > possibility that all that happened was that you had so > > little discrimination at the time that you were perfect > > fodder for a cult. > > I told you, nobility isn't in the picture, way too over > the top for me. And, as I think I've told you and others here, I don't believe a word you say. I believe only what you do. You consistently make excuses for Robin's behavior. *You* were the one who described his actions as "noble." Not me. You. > Anyone who knows me knows I am the last thing from "perfect > fodder for a cult". You're just going to have to trust me on > this one too. No. I'm not. :-) > You forget or maybe never read that post but I was the > whistleblower at the end, In my personal experience, the "whistleblowers" from cults are among the *most attached* former members of those cults. They tend to persist in their attachments decades after the True Believers have moved on. > ...the one who "outed" the whole thing to the city of Victoria > via the city paper in a 5 part series that ran over 5 weeks, > I was used as a source for Masters students researching cult > phenomena, I was interviewed on national radio (CBC). I ended > up getting some of the followers fired from their jobs because > of their involvement with Robin... See above. > ...I personally stormed the big house and grabbed my best > friend, throwing his things into my horse trailer. I sent > scathing letters to the group and Robin, I showed up at a > seminar to tell them how crazy it had all gotten. And > that is just the tip of the iceberg. And all of this is supposed to convince me that you didn't go more than a little "bunny boiler" on Robin? :-) Attachment is attachment. How it is expressed is irrelevant. > When it was over, it was over. No sentimentality there but > no regrets either. And I don't feel noble about any of the > "heroics" at the end if that is what you're thinking. I have no earthly idea what you are talking about. Really. What did you imagine? That it -- whatever "it" was -- was all glorious, and deserving of the term "heroics?" And that everyone here would just know what you were referring to? Just asking. > Actually, I feel really bad it had to come to that,,, What? We have no idea what you're talking about. Really. That was part of *your* experience, not ours. In my estimation, no one on this forum has any idea what you are talking about. > ...especially about my > old friend getting fired from her job. As if this should matter to us. As it clearly *still* does matter to you, all these decades on. Just saying. > > I am certainly willing to look at that interpretation of > > my time with Rama. But I've never seen you deal with that > > possible interpretation of Robin. It's as if you're still > > trying to impress him (assuming that he's lurking), and > > still hoping for the same "pat on the back" from him that > > you lived for at the time. > > Nah, whoever Robin is today is bound to be a different Robin > and I am certainly changed. Who he is in relation to me is > perhaps never to be known to me so what exactly I would be > looking for approval for or from who, based on who exactly > the man is anymore, is impossible to establish. What can I do > on FFL to impress him? Based on reading what he has to say he > has acknowledged his past misconceptions, errors and > various transgressions against his former students and friends. > For me to sit here and write about how noble and wonderful and > infallible he was back then would be to be doing him a > disservice. Why? One simple question. Three letters. WHY? > I think I know him well enough to know he would despise me > for it. And this still *matters* to you? I'm seriously asking. > He would despise it because he knows I would be acting falsely. > He would remember how I felt and what I did at the end of things > in 1986 and to praise him now and ignore how it all went down > would be ridiculous. Again, if I may be so rude as to point this out to you, this is another list of things that mean something only to you and inside your head. No one else here knows WTF you are talking about. Really. > > It's your near inability to see any other side of him *but* > > the "noble" side that makes me think you're mood-making. > > Still. All these years later. > > I see lots more than his good qualities, nobility not one of > them by the way - I think I described him as a "misguided > warrior" - and I could make a list of negative ones. I had > thought about it a lot way back when, but only recently has > the subject come back to the forefront because of FFL. It is > not something I had thought about much at all in 25 years. I am suggesting that perhaps you should have.
