--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<richard@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> awoelflebater:
> > Raunchy, I have to acknowledge your kind post. Sometimes you just
want to give up on certain things, like trying to make unreasonable
people find reason. So, that is what I am going to do. That was my last
shot at that. At least now I know who is not either willing or able to
open their minds let alone any other vital body part, like a heart, to
someone. At least I can check that one off my list.
> >
> So, it's all about Barry. Lazy 'top-posters'! Go figure.
No Richard, it's all about me.
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <raunchydog@>
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well at least ONE reader here knew what I was writing about.
Granted, she is smart, analytical, reasonable, meticulous and
insightful. But surely the average FFL'er could understand most of what
I said. Of course, I also realize most are not interested in this
subject of mine but I was hoping Barry could at least "grok" half of it.
After all, I was "rapping" on about it for him. (sigh)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ann. I usually read Judy's post because she doesn't miss much
about anything that I might find interesting, otherwise I might have
missed your rap with Barry and his failure to understand a word of
anything you said and still less about you as a human being. I don't
have a "do not read list." I have a "usually read list" Judy, Em, Ann,
Lawson. Everyone else I glance at the topic and writer to see if I want
to chime in.
> > >
> > > What Barry fails to understand about you is your ability to
reflect honestly upon and express your feelings and motivations so
clearly, warts and all. I admire your courage and passion to seize the
moment. These are qualities I value in a friendship. My God! I would
have given anything to have seen you "storm the big house, grab your
best friend and throw his things into your horse trailer." What a gal!
If ever I'm in trouble, I'd want you on my side.
> > >
> > > Anyway, you gave it your best shot with Barry, but "pearls before
swine..." as they say.
> > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Earlier this morning I made a post in which I asked at
> > > > > the end why anybody would consider anything Barry says
> > > > > these days to be worthwhile. He's thoughtfully followed
> > > > > up with another batch of even better examples of his
> > > > > utter inanity:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater
<no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > > > > > So there was an element of
> > > > > > > > > > > sentimentality, because in the end the whole thing
didn't
> > > > > > > > > > > quite pan out with regard to MMY or even Robin's
> > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not to mention "in terms of reality." :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh, reality. Such a subjective and
impossible-to-absolutely-define
> > > > > > > concept.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't actually see it as that difficult to define.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reality is that which, after you die and cease to exist
> > > > > > as an egoic entity, persists.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Barry suggesting he has died and ceased to exist as an
> > > > > egoic entity? It would appear so, since he asserts above
> > > > > that Robin's goals didn't pan out "in terms of reality."
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > With all due respect, Ann, what this sounds like to me
> > > > > > > > is a bunch of moodmaking on *your* part, to "color" your
> > > > > > > > memories such that *you* feel "noble."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Interesting that it comes across like this because this is
> > > > > > > not what I am about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I *get* that. Why I am commenting is that you're coming
> > > > > > across as if that *was* what you were about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Correction: This is how Barry perceives Ann to be coming
> > > > > across. And that perception is not subject to any
> > > > > modification.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > First of all, what Robin did or did not do during my time
around
> > > > > > > him doesn't reflect the slightest on me, what I was hoping
for
> > > > > > > or what I believed. He was pretty much guiding the ship
and we
> > > > > > > were all tossed about, including him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you abdicate all responsibility for walking up the
> > > > > > plank and boarding that ship? Just asking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nobility is the least of it. I didn't give a dang about
his
> > > > > > > "enlightenment", the movement, TM or any of the other
spiritual
> > > > > > > trappings. I thought he was a wonderful shit disturbing
rebel
> > > > > > > with interesting ideas, he was attractive, smart and there
was
> > > > > > > never a dull moment around him (if you don't count the
chanting
> > > > > > > and manifestations).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cool. This is the most "real" I have yet heard you speak
> > > > > > about your time with Robin on this forum. That's what I
> > > > > > have been after.
> > > > >
> > > > > IOW, Barry didn't read all the other posts in which she's
> > > > > said the same thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > I told you, nobility isn't in the picture, way too over
> > > > > > > the top for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And, as I think I've told you and others here, I don't
> > > > > > believe a word you say. I believe only what you do.
> > > > >
> > > > > As has been pointed out to Barry before, there is no
> > > > > "doing" on this forum, only "saying." The distinction
> > > > > he attempts to make is just an excuse for calling people
> > > > > liars, as he does Ann above.
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > Now come the really interesting parts of Barry's response:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > You forget or maybe never read that post but I was the
> > > > > > > whistleblower at the end,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my personal experience, the "whistleblowers" from cults
> > > > > > are among the *most attached* former members of those cults.
> > > > > > They tend to persist in their attachments decades after
> > > > > > the True Believers have moved on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...the one who "outed" the whole thing to the city of
Victoria
> > > > > > > via the city paper in a 5 part series that ran over 5
weeks,
> > > > > > > I was used as a source for Masters students researching
cult
> > > > > > > phenomena, I was interviewed on national radio (CBC). I
ended
> > > > > > > up getting some of the followers fired from their jobs
because
> > > > > > > of their involvement with Robin...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See above.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...I personally stormed the big house and grabbed my best
> > > > > > > friend, throwing his things into my horse trailer. I sent
> > > > > > > scathing letters to the group and Robin, I showed up at a
> > > > > > > seminar to tell them how crazy it had all gotten. And
> > > > > > > that is just the tip of the iceberg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And all of this is supposed to convince me that you didn't
> > > > > > go more than a little "bunny boiler" on Robin? :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Attachment is attachment. How it is expressed is irrelevant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > When it was over, it was over. No sentimentality there but
> > > > > > > no regrets either. And I don't feel noble about any of the
> > > > > > > "heroics" at the end if that is what you're thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Really.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that amazing? She just finished describing the "heroics,"
> > > > > and Barry has no idea what she's referring to.
> > > > >
> > > > > > What did you imagine? That it -- whatever "it" was -- was
> > > > > > all glorious, and deserving of the term "heroics?" And that
> > > > > > everyone here would just know what you were referring to?
> > > > > > Just asking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody who has read her post with any attention would
> > > > > know exactly what she was referring to, since she just
> > > > > got done describing it in some detail.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, I feel really bad it had to come to that,,,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What? We have no idea what you're talking about. Really.
> > > > > > That was part of *your* experience, not ours.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my estimation, no one on this forum has any idea what
> > > > > > you are talking about.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect all of us on this forum who actually read
> > > > > her post with any attention know exactly what she was
> > > > > talking about. "The 'heroics' at the end" obviously
> > > > > refers to what she just described of her whistleblower
> > > > > activities. So does "that." Not at all clear how
> > > > > anybody who was compos mentis could miss it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > ...especially about my
> > > > > > > old friend getting fired from her job.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As if this should matter to us. As it clearly *still* does
> > > > > > matter to you, all these decades on. Just saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry, of course, never indulges in an instant's reflection
> > > > > on anything he's ever done that has had a negative effect
> > > > > on anyone, including his old friends.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am certainly willing to look at that interpretation of
> > > > > > > > my time with Rama. But I've never seen you deal with
that
> > > > > > > > possible interpretation of Robin. It's as if you're
still
> > > > > > > > trying to impress him (assuming that he's lurking), and
> > > > > > > > still hoping for the same "pat on the back" from him
that
> > > > > > > > you lived for at the time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nah, whoever Robin is today is bound to be a different
Robin
> > > > > > > and I am certainly changed. Who he is in relation to me is
> > > > > > > perhaps never to be known to me so what exactly I would be
> > > > > > > looking for approval for or from who, based on who exactly
> > > > > > > the man is anymore, is impossible to establish. What can I
do
> > > > > > > on FFL to impress him? Based on reading what he has to say
he
> > > > > > > has acknowledged his past misconceptions, errors and
> > > > > > > various transgressions against his former students and
friends.
> > > > > > > For me to sit here and write about how noble and wonderful
and
> > > > > > > infallible he was back then would be to be doing him a
> > > > > > > disservice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One simple question. Three letters. WHY?
> > > > >
> > > > > Geez. Barry can't follow the simplest explanation. *Because
> > > > > Robin thinks he behaved like a total shit*, that's why.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I think I know him well enough to know he would despise me
> > > > > > > for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And this still *matters* to you? I'm seriously asking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, isn't it amazing? Ann would prefer not to cause
> > > > > someone discomfort by saying something she knows isn't
> > > > > true about them. We can all understand why that's so
> > > > > difficult for Barry to grasp.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > He would despise it because he knows I would be acting
falsely.
> > > > > > > He would remember how I felt and what I did at the end of
things
> > > > > > > in 1986 and to praise him now and ignore how it all went
down
> > > > > > > would be ridiculous.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again, if I may be so rude as to point this out to you,
> > > > > > this is another list of things that mean something only to
> > > > > > you and inside your head. No one else here knows WTF you
> > > > > > are talking about. Really.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, anybody who read her post with attention would
> > > > > know *exactly* what she was talking about, because she
> > > > > described it in some detail.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's your near inability to see any other side of him
*but*
> > > > > > > > the "noble" side that makes me think you're mood-making.
> > > > > > > > Still. All these years later.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I see lots more than his good qualities, nobility not one
of
> > > > > > > them by the way - I think I described him as a "misguided
> > > > > > > warrior" - and I could make a list of negative ones. I had
> > > > > > > thought about it a lot way back when, but only recently
has
> > > > > > > the subject come back to the forefront because of FFL. It
is
> > > > > > > not something I had thought about much at all in 25 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am suggesting that perhaps you should have.
> > > > >
> > > > > Says Barry, obliviously contradicting his immediately
> > > > > previous suggestions that Ann is too "attached" to what
> > > > > happened in the past. Earlier in the post, e.g., he said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In my personal experience, the "whistleblowers" from cults
> > > > > > are among the *most attached* former members of those cults.
> > > > > > They tend to persist in their attachments decades after
> > > > > > the True Believers have moved on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ann just told Barry she moved on shortly after having blown
> > > > > the whistle. And now he's telling her she shouldn't have;
> > > > > she should have stayed attached.
> > > > >
> > > > > Really, his brain cells are dying at an ever-increasing
> > > > > rate.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
